🚀 go-pugleaf

"michael egan" <mde...@net-link.net> wrote:
>TarlaStar <!!!bmy...@ionet.net> wrote in article
><5rspae$e3r$1...@ionews.ionet.net>...
<snip>
>> 
>> >And this is a valid point - it would be very difficult.  However,
>> >99% of writers, artists, musicians do not make a living
>> >at it anyway.
>> 
>> Horseshit. You haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about.
>> Just because someone CLAIMS to be an artist, that doesn't mean they're
>> worth a shit. 

>And just because someone doesn't make their money as an artist
>does not mean they aren't. 

Writers write, dancers dance, painters paint...bullshit artists talk.
Artists work at art. If they aren't doing the work of art, then they
aren't artists. They're dreamers.

> Nor does someone who makes a lot
>of money at it necessarily an artist. 

Oh I'd agree with you there...unless you consider salesmanship an art.

> It would seem that you
>consider the salability of a piece of work the only point worth
>considering.  I don't say that's unimportant.  Nor do I say that
>anyone considering it is not a real artist.  But it cannot be the first
>consideration.

Well what is a REAL artist? And what is the first consideration?

>> >Therefore, if you wish these activities to
>> >> proceed, society must provide a way for people to make a living at
>> >> them.  Hence copyrights, patents, etc.
>> 
>> >But society does not provide a way for 99% of the creative
>> >people to make a living at it.  There's a lot of
>> >tremendous talent out there that doesn't get hired.
>> 
>> There are any number of people who call themselves "artists" who never
>> lift a fucking finger to actually try to work at their jobs.

>And there are many who do.

And those that do and have talent, will make a living at it. Some will
even make a living at it without talent.
> 
>> Who do you think makes all that kitsch that you see in tourist traps?
>> Artists, believe it or not...ones that were able to see that working
>> is better than whining. Some of the best artists I know spent years
>> working as commercial artists in order to be able to finally work in
>> as fine artists. But they were artists all along. They simply changed
>> the market that they wished to approach.

>Yes, but how many of them make a living at it?

All of them. Look, I make my living in this business and so does every
other artist I know. We have to hustle, but we survive without
resorting to waiting tables or clerking at the 7-11.
> 
>> >However, I would ask this.  How much money did Emily Dickenson
>> >want to make from her poetry?  And how many poets, not
>> >counting money earned from teaching as professors, actually
>> >make their living from poetry?
>> 
>> I don't make a "living" from it, but I do make an income from selling
>> books/ poetry competitions/ invited readings. So do many others. It's
>> not the goal to starve, man. The problem is that poetry is not a real
>> desirable commodity in our current society. There was a time when a
>> poet COULD make a living and maybe there will be again. 

>I believe you have proved my point.  You are among the 99%
>that don't make a living from it, as am I.  Neither one of us
>would want to be considered unworthy because of this.

I don't make an ENTIRE living from it, but I do receive income from
that particular outlet. One hat doesn't cover me, but the income from
all my hats allows me to survive without going naked in the world.
> 
>> >Answers - none and hardly any.  When it come to the artistic
>> >impulse, money is often the last thought of the artist, and
>> >certainly cannot be the first.
>> 
>> Wrong. Artists don't make crap to look at.
>Often they do.
>They make it for OTHER
>> people to look at.
>Often they do, but often their first audience is themselves.

> "Can I sell this?" is OFTEN the first thought in an
>> artist's mind.

>Do you mean to say that when you're confronted with
>a blank screen or piece of paper, you think "What
>can I write to make money, today?"  

You bet your ass. I can write anything. I am not limited. When an
editor says "Tarla, I need an article on beertap handles, can you
handle that?" I say, "Yes, of course I can." Then I learn all I can
about beertap handles and write the article. The only place I write
for free is on Usenet. 

What is the point of writing a novel? To look at it and say, "Damn! I
wrote a novel?" No, the point is to sell the damned thing and make
money while advancing your viewpoint.


Tarla
***Tarla Star***
"If the Pope pushed over Howdy Doody in the woods and there was
no one around but one hand clapping, would Rose Kennedy get 
bear shit on her black dress?  I think I've made my point."
--Thaddeus N. Gunn