🚀 go-pugleaf

This is in reference to <MPG.10daab947...@news.demon.co.uk>, in which a
one ma...@mhetherington.demon.co.uk (Mark) wrote:
> In article <oZ%b2.2041$961....@server1.news.adelphia.net>, 
> tabmok99....@damnspaz.com says...
> > > > By the way, are you pro-life or pro-choice?
> > > 
> > > Pro-choice of course.
> > 
> > OK, now tell me: Why is killing OK as long as the victim isn't born yet?
> 
> This one should be fun :P

Yeah, like something right out of a Seinfeld episode :)

> > > Being sad in general can be a mental disorder - hard-wired and quite
>  likely
> > > genetic.  Being sad about specific things is a choice.
> > 
> > Feelings aren't choices.  That's like saying the starving Ethiopian kids are
>  
> > choosing to be hungry.  
> 
> Starving is not a feeling. Feelings so far in discussion seem to be 
> revolving around "emotions" rather than the fuller sense of the world.

That's true, feeling has so many different subtle meanings...  just like 
"conservative" :)  I gotta be more careful about things like this.

> > > From an ethical point of view it is better not to eat meat because we
> > > shouldn't have the right to just kill animals the way we do.  There are in
> > > fact no positive arguments for eating meat other than "i like it".  Eating
> > > meat is even less defensible than taking drugs.
> > 
> > But you were just defending guns with hunting animals as a prime example.
> > I'm suddenly finding a lot of wholes in your argument.
> > 
> > "All animals were put on Earth for man's salvation."  There's good enough 
> > reason for me.
> 
> I dread to think where that quote comes from :(

It's nothing to make a sad face about.
 
> > Human kind didn't all come from Adam and Eve.  That was just a myth that was
>  
> > used to explain things to epople in the olden days.  People were simpler
>  back 
> > then and wouldn't be able to understand the scientific things we have today 
> > (like DNA, evolution, any of that stuff.)
> 
> You are talking as if these things were know about and just kept secret 
> :P

Not secret exactly, they just didn't want to confuse people with all this 
scientific jargon.  They probably didn't have words back then that would fit 
anyway :)
 
> Still, nice to know you appreciate the origin of the species. 

Yeah, and it's also nice to know that if the human race does fall, it is 
possible for it form from creatures that resemble apes.

> > > Remember we talked about this on agmk a few months ago.  But the feeling
>  of
> > > having sexual power over someone would be greatly reduced if everyone
>  walked
> > > round naked and sex was simply a matter of saying "you feel like some? 
>  yup?
> > > *thrust thrust*  thanks, i'll seeya".
> > 
> > Maybe, but we're not animals, we're people.
> 
> We may be the "height" of the evolutionary chain, and although we never 
> came from the mythical Adam and Eve, we as in all mankind and every 
> living thing started of as slime a few billion years ago. Many animal 
> species around today that we haven't yet wiped into extinction or 
> genetically modified to an unrecognisablee form have been around for far 
> more than the mere one million we have. 
>
> So what makes us so special? What makes us any different from animals 
> other than our arrogant attitude and desire to become the God that fewer 
> and fewer people believe in? 

Language.  Humour.  The fact that we can build complicated high tech things 
like video games and web pages and all this other crap.  Can you imagine two 
monkeys trying to have this same discussion in three different countries like 
we are now?

> > > If we didn't look at the law regularly to assess its worth, we would still
> > > be living in a country where homosexual sex was punishable by a jail
> > > sentence, 
> > 
> > In the bible, it says they deserve the death penalty.  Giving them a jail 
> 
> Fortunately we long ago realised that the bible is *not* law. 
> 
> Besides, the bible is open to interpretation. Look at the Jehovah 
> Witnesses who read "thou shalt not take the blood of another man" to mean 
> they cannot have a blood transfusion and would rather watch family 
> members die than allow it! Now that *is* fucked up!

OK, the Bible is mistranslated a lot.  But Leviticus 20:13 is clear:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of
them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;
their blood shall be upon them." 

They deserve the death penalty, it is very clear.  Now there is a need for 
separation of church and state, however homosexuality isn't just a crime 
against God, it's a crime against nature.

> > There are too many irresponsible drug users, and legalizing it right now
>  would 
> > just make things a whole lot worse.  One day when society is better than it
>  is 
> > right now, there might not be a need to keep drugs illegal.  Maybe in the 
> 
> I would prefer to think that future society would not need to abuse drugs 
> to get it's pleasures.

Same here.  A society where drugs are commonplace is a step backwards.

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