🚀 go-pugleaf

Stephen Howe posted:
>Hi
>Just asking about issues with CC3, MAP12 (Black Rain) 

Ah, I wondered if you were still making your way through them :)
No problems with cchest2 map24? It was fairly infamous for having a bug
that prevented completion in anything other than ZDoom.

>(i) Reasonably near the start, there are 4 alcoves with radiations
>suits. Grabbing one of these and heading into a green ooze niche where
>2 imps emerged from, there is a Commander Keen in the dark. Does
>killing him do anything?

No. There's another one somewhere else, but even if you kill both, there
are no doors with the magic 666 tag in the map.

I heard a story that the wad compiler wanted to remove the Keens, but
the map's author wouldn't let him..(!)

>(ii) in the NW of the map, where the train is located there is a long
>tunnel and going down this is a BFG at the far end and a stick.
>The roof always collapses if attempting to grab the BFG.
>Is it possible?

No, I believe it is intentionally a trap.

-- 
http://rjy.org.uk/

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:53:34 GMT, RjY <RjY@sp.am> wrote:

>Stephen Howe posted:
>>Hi
>>Just asking about issues with CC3, MAP12 (Black Rain) 
>
>Ah, I wondered if you were still making your way through them :)
>No problems with cchest2 map24? It was fairly infamous for having a bug
>that prevented completion in anything other than ZDoom.

No I got through that, no damage. 
Killing all the chaingunners - I did the hard way (I learnt about the
easy way later).  There were numerous exposures at the right place
which caused chaingunners to kill themselves (make sure a distant
chaingunner in a tower is firing at you and a nearer tower and that
causes a firefight). Took many days.
As you say - many bugs:
You cant open the door onto the lake of ooze in PrBoom
You cant jump onto 2 boxes in hidden room off lake of ooze in PrBoom
You cant open that switch for the final section as you mentioned
above.
In all these cases, I temporarily invoked IDCLIP, and just walking a
fraction forward and pressing opened door/switch/was on top of box.

It is a brilliant level.
I do wish that all the bugs were fixed
(But then I do wish all major WADs had a clean up, even the ID
Software ones, so that there are no complaints by node compilers, no
faults on SideDefs, LineDefs, all secrets reachable, no problems with
keys (e.g. TNT MAP31, yellow key missing), 4 startpoints for
CoOperative, all enemies teleport in etc).
It should be such that most WADs, if at all possible, should be
playable with most ports. Those WADs that intentionally rely on some
feature should be explicitly mentioned (e.g. Momento Mori WADs secrets
- some are only reachable if the WAD is played cooperatively). 

MAP30 proved easier than I thought. It is just a case of dashing for
all Satyr switches, then keycards, then keycard switches in the right
order to minimise running. And since I still had some left-over
invulnerability that was okay. Roughly 

Centre Satyr switch
Left Satyr switch
Centre keycard
Right Satyr switch
Right keycard
Left Keycard
Left Keycard switch
Centre Keycard switch
Right Keycard switch

>>(i) Reasonably near the start, there are 4 alcoves with radiations
>>suits. Grabbing one of these and heading into a green ooze niche where
>>2 imps emerged from, there is a Commander Keen in the dark. Does
>>killing him do anything?
>
>No. There's another one somewhere else, but even if you kill both, there
>are no doors with the magic 666 tag in the map.
>
>I heard a story that the wad compiler wanted to remove the Keens, but
>the map's author wouldn't let him..(!)
>
>>(ii) in the NW of the map, where the train is located there is a long
>>tunnel and going down this is a BFG at the far end and a stick.
>>The roof always collapses if attempting to grab the BFG.
>>Is it possible?
>
>No, I believe it is intentionally a trap.

Hrrmmm, I will battle on then.  Thanks.
I like the looks of MAP29 of CC3. MAP29 of CC2 was a tad easy.

Mind you I have been temporarily sidetracked with Claustrophobia 1024.
Totally brilliant and awesome quality. On MAP07.
So far, no damage. But I have had to work very hard.
Most of the thanks needs to go the Green Herring for proofing the
levels. 

Thanks

Stephen Howe

Stephen Howe posted:
>It [CC2 MAP24] is a brilliant level.
>I do wish that all the bugs were fixed

I recently learned there is an unofficial fixed version:
http://disasterlabs.com/thegreenherring/temp/cc2_m24f.zip

>I like the looks of MAP29 of CC3. MAP29 of CC2 was a tad easy.

I found the design and layout of CC2 29 was genius. Sadly it is brought
down by a few ZDoomisms, but everything seems to be that way these days.

CC3 29 is a tribute to some Scythe2 map (24 or 25, I forget which). It
rather suffers from copypaste syndrome and the original is better.

>Mind you I have been temporarily sidetracked with Claustrophobia 1024.
>Totally brilliant and awesome quality. On MAP07.

I am on map13 :) Although I skipped a couple. It's definitely better
than the first one.

-- 
http://rjy.org.uk/

>I am on map13 :) Although I skipped a couple. 

I am now on MAP12.
I was pleased to do "Bitter Sanctuary" without losing health/armour
below 200/200 ever although it took some doing.
(i) There is a point where you pass a switch and there is mass
teleport. If you strafe-run for the opposite side with a plasma, there
is a semi-enclosed room with 7/8th enclosure, 2 imps teleport in. If
you take them out you can dispatch all the rest from  the room.
(ii) There is a subterranean room where there mass teleports in.
But you can take the lift down, run forward and back and take the lift
back up. Repeatedly sending the lift down brings sometimes 1 enemy up
which can be dispatched.
Sames also with Mudbath. The final section can be done by a small
advance. Wall rises up behind and after 1 minute come back down.
Now advance all the way in. Enemies teleport in but now you can
retreat and pick them off one by one.

>It's definitely better than the first one.

Yes. Congestion 1024 was very variable on quality.
MAP02 looked visually great but the game play sucked.
MAP03 looked great and played well for an early map.
MAP10 - not all enemies teleported in
MAP11 was relentless in terms of waves of enemies (John Romero style
maps). I liked the collapsing buildings. Very tough level.
MAP14 had a good claustrophobic feel. Good traps and design.
MAP15 was very poor.
MAP17 & MAP18 - did not really like. 
MAP19 - you cannot get the Berserk pack, one imp is incorrectly
positioned in a wall (I might be thinking of MAP23).
MAP20 - demon/spectre does not teleport in. Rare mistake by the FP.
MAP27, MAP28 and MAP29 - good enemies, good puzzles, visually stunning
MAP30 - good level
MAP31, MAP32 - reasonable secret levels. MAP32 is well designed.
MAP31 is okay but I would have expected something slightly more
interesting for a secret level like "Killer Colors" from Alien
Vendetta. 

Some of the maps had bugs where not all enemies teleported in.
Many levels were too easy or visually basic.
It could have benefitted with a longer time frame and editorial
feedback, more maps submitted.

For both WADs, I would get test players to rank them in order of
difficulty, average them and reorder maps according to difficulty.
MAP15, MAP31 are special so need special treatment.

I have also played recently Plutonia2 (early Beta version).  
MAP30 is truly impossible. You need 2-3 players using BFGs
continuously.
I should report a bug I found on one map.

S