🚀 go-pugleaf

On 02/02/06 12:17 PM, Nicola® wrote:

> First, escuse me for my bad English because I'm italian.
> There's a patch or similar for play Doom3 in Windows ME ?

Yes, it's called Windows XP :-)

It's possible to modify the executable using a hex editor to force it to
run on previous versions of Windows:
http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Doom3/FAQ_Windows9xME.htm

But I think my first recommendation would be more successful..

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:33:11 -0500, Chris Odorjan wrote:

> On 02/02/06 12:17 PM, Nicola® wrote:
> 
>> First, escuse me for my bad English because I'm italian.
>> There's a patch or similar for play Doom3 in Windows ME ?
> 
> Yes, it's called Windows XP :-)
> 
> It's possible to modify the executable using a hex editor to force it to
> run on previous versions of Windows:
> http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Doom3/FAQ_Windows9xME.htm
> 
> But I think my first recommendation would be more successful..

I got Doom 3 AND Quake 4 running on my WinME setup with no problem using
part of the method explained in the site given above.  Just ignore the part
where it says don't use the setup to install the game.  If you have autorun
enabled just pop CD 1 in (or DVD in the case of Quake 4), click install and
wait.  Soon the installer will bitch at you saying that you don't have
Win2K or XP.  IT GIVES YOU THE CHOICE OF INSTALLING ANYWAY!

Let setup install the game, enter your CD/DVD key (you do have one, right?)
and your almost there.

Next download a hex editor.  I reccomend FED, which is a old dos based
editor, but works just as well.  Find it here:
ftp://ftp.externet.hu/pub/mirror/sac/utilprog/fed165.zip

Extract FED.EXE and put it somewhere safe, say..."c:\program files".  Then
make a shortcut to FED.EXE inside "c:\windows\send to".

lastly, locate your doom3.exe or quake4.exe, right click and select
properties and make sure the file isn't write protected.  Next right-click
and "Send to" FED.  This should open up the exe inside fed.

NExt press F5 to enter find mode and enter "GlobalMemoryStatusEx" (without
the quotation marks) and press enter.  The cursor should be flashing under
the G of Global.  Using the cursor keys move the cursor to the E of Ex.

Now the important part, press F3 to enter HEX edit mode and press 0 (zero)
four times.  If you have done this right you should see that the Ex has
been erased.  Press Escape and say yes to save the changes and then press
Escape to quit FED.  NEVER quit FED by closing the window using the X
button as this will lock the file until you reboot.

Enjoy D3 and Q4 on 98 and ME!

This hack works for both D3 retail, the expansion pack and the D3 V1.3
patch.

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Just one little OT thing I forgot to mention in my last post which could be
quite usefull to quite a few people.

Simply locate you "Send To" folder (you may need to make hidden system
files visible tho), right click and select copy.  Then enter the Send To
folder and right click in it and select Paste shortcut.  Now when you wnat
to add something to the send to menu all you have to do is right click and
"Send to Send To"!

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cooling a P4 is trying the same thing with lava.
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Dopo dura riflessione, John Moore ha scritto :

> Just ignore the part
> where it says don't use the setup to install the game.  

You're sure?

Scriveva Nicola® venerdì, 03/02/2006:

> You're sure?

ehmmm...
"Are you sure?"

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 18:38:34 +0100, Nicola® wrote:

> Scriveva Nicola® venerdì, 03/02/2006:
> 
>> You're sure?
> 
> ehmmm...
> "Are you sure?"

Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
gave me the choice of installing anyway.

BTW, both my copies of Doom 3 and Quake 4 are bought in the UK published
by Activision if that makes any difference. 

Sorry for the delay in reply.
-- 
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John Moore ha detto questo venerdì :

> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
> gave me the choice of installing anyway.

There's a problem. I have install the patch 1.3 and now it tell to me 
that there isn't "KERNEL32.DLL:GlobalMemoryStatuEX"

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:38:09 +0100, Nicola® wrote:

> John Moore ha detto questo venerdì :
> 
>> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
>> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
>> gave me the choice of installing anyway.
> 
> There's a problem. I have install the patch 1.3 and now it tell to me 
> that there isn't "KERNEL32.DLL:GlobalMemoryStatuEX"

Just re-hack the doom3.exe, should work.  Did for me. ^_^

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> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
> gave me the choice of installing anyway.

And which OS was that?

SH 

Scriveva John Moore venerdì, 03/02/2006:

> Just re-hack the doom3.exe, should work.  Did for me. ^_^

No because the file was remain modified

Il 04/02/2006, Nicola® ha detto :

> No because the file was remain modified

I'm a stupid. Oh Yes.
Ok, now the problem is resolve.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:33:03 -0000, Stephen Howe wrote:

>> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
>> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
>> gave me the choice of installing anyway.
> 
> And which OS was that?
> 
> SH

Windows ME LE (Limited edition which will only install if you can prove
you have Win98) with all major updates.

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On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:45:11 +0000, John Moore wrote:

> Windows ME LE (Limited edition which will only install if you can prove
> you have Win98) with all major updates.

The regular ME wasn't limited enough already?

-- 
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> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
> gave me the choice of installing anyway.

I would not be so sure. What matters is that is the 3 main files of Windows 
(KERNEL32.DLL, USER32.DLL & GDI32.DLL) support the APIs that Doom3/Quake4 
requires. If they do not, it will not run.

A case in point:
Visual Studio 2005 C++ apps may not run on Windows NT 4.0.
Some of the apps, if built in a certain way - require the API 
GetLongPathNameW to exist.
Now NT4.0's KERNEL even with Service Pack 6a, does not support that API.
So they will not run on NT 4.0

Depending on how critical these missing APIs are, hacking Doom3/Quake4 may 
not be enough.
It would be interesting to find out how far back you can go with

Windows 95
Windows 98, first edition
Windows 98, second edition
Windows ME
Windows NT 3.1
Windows NT 3.5
Windows NT 4.0
Windows 2000
Windows XP
Windows 2003

Stephen Howe 

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:52:29 -0000, Stephen Howe wrote:

>> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
>> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
>> gave me the choice of installing anyway.
> 
> I would not be so sure. What matters is that is the 3 main files of Windows 
> (KERNEL32.DLL, USER32.DLL & GDI32.DLL) support the APIs that Doom3/Quake4 
> requires. If they do not, it will not run.

AFAIK the only 2K/XP spesific API call D3 and Q4 use is
"GlobalMemoryStatusEx".  The 9x version is "GlobalMemoryStatus".  Is the
case of running Doom 3/Quake 4 there is no pratical difference between
the two calls.  From what I have heard "GlobalMemoryStatusEx"  can
address up to 4TB of memory but "GlobalMemoryStatus" can't.

 
> A case in point:
> Visual Studio 2005 C++ apps may not run on Windows NT 4.0.
> Some of the apps, if built in a certain way - require the API 
> GetLongPathNameW to exist.
> Now NT4.0's KERNEL even with Service Pack 6a, does not support that API.
> So they will not run on NT 4.0

Valid point in some cases, not however for D3/Q4.

> Depending on how critical these missing APIs are, hacking Doom3/Quake4 may 
> not be enough.

"GlobalMemoryStatusEx" must not be very critical because
"GlobalMemoryStatus" seems good enough to run D3/Q4, and I have run Q4
on WinME with 512MB ram and a GeForce5200 with 128MB ram and it was
still playable and it NEVER crashed on me.  D3 only locked up ONCE for
about 5 seconds as it had to wake up the HD, and that was running a
Geforce4 MX440 with 64MB ram.  Both times were on a AMD Athlon XP 3000+.

> It would be interesting to find out how far back you can go with
> 
> Windows 95
> Windows 98, first edition
> Windows 98, second edition
> Windows ME
> Windows NT 3.1
> Windows NT 3.5
> Windows NT 4.0
> Windows 2000
> Windows XP
> Windows 2003

I don't get what you mean with that.

The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.

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On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:06:24 +0000, John Moore wrote:

> The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
> least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
> was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.

That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.  Of course, some of us
aren't tied to M$ at all any more, and use Linux.  Both of the above games
run (natively) on Linux, and better than they do in Windoze...

-- 
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Linux Registered User #327951

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:09:34 -0600, Dan C wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:06:24 +0000, John Moore wrote:
> 
>> The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
>> least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
>> was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.
> 
> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
> is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.  Of course, some of us
> aren't tied to M$ at all any more, and use Linux.  Both of the above games
> run (natively) on Linux, and better than they do in Windoze...

Im non to fond of Micro$haft's products either, but until Linsux can run
ALL the software I use and is guranteed not to nuke my hard drive's
partition table and MBR upon installation (which it has on the 3rd
occasion I decide to try it) then Im sticking with Windblows....

....unless ReactOS becomes a viable alternative to both.... 


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Dan C wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:06:24 +0000, John Moore wrote:
> 
>> The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
>> least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
>> was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.
> 
> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
> is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.  Of course, some of us
> aren't tied to M$ at all any more, and use Linux.  Both of the above games
> run (natively) on Linux, and better than they do in Windoze...

If the game makers are in bed with MS, then why does it run, as you 
claim, better on Linux?  Wouldn't the game makers have made it run worse?

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:45:16 -0600, NuQ wrote:

>>> The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
>>> least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
>>> was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.
 
>> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
>> is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.  Of course, some of us
>> aren't tied to M$ at all any more, and use Linux.  Both of the above games
>> run (natively) on Linux, and better than they do in Windoze...
 
> If the game makers are in bed with MS, then why does it run, as you 
> claim, better on Linux?  Wouldn't the game makers have made it run worse?

No, because how it runs on Linux is out of the game-maker's hands.  That's
a function of the efficiency of the operating system itself, and the
drivers.

-- 
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Linux Registered User #327951

> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
> is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.

In the case of ID Software that is hardly likely.
Carmack was pretty scathing about Direct3D some time ago and prefers to 
program for OpenGL.
I am not sure how true that is today.

You might want to read
http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windoze/OpenGLvsDirect3D.html
for background info (it is now quite old)

and also
http://rmitz.org/carmack.on.opengl.html

Stephen Howe

> Windows ME LE (Limited edition which will only install if you can prove
> you have Win98) with all major updates.

Hrrrmm, I happen to know that Microsoft regrets releasing Windows ME.
I think they think they would have been better off directing Windows98SE 
users to WindowsXP Home edition and WindowsME would not exist.

Stephen Howe 

> AFAIK the only 2K/XP spesific API call D3 and Q4 use is
> "GlobalMemoryStatusEx".  The 9x version is "GlobalMemoryStatus".  Is the
> case of running Doom 3/Quake 4 there is no pratical difference between
> the two calls.  From what I have heard "GlobalMemoryStatusEx"  can
> address up to 4TB of memory but "GlobalMemoryStatus" can't.

It is less than that.
For Window2000 and above, GlobalMemoryStatus returns -1 if you have more 
that 4Gb of memory
For below Window2000, GlobalMemoryStatus returns reminder modulo 4Gb
They also fill in different structures. So they are not entirely 
interchangeable.
It depends what information IDSoftware is extracting out of the filled 
buffers.

ID Software could have probed for version of Windows and then done a dynamic 
call to GlobalMemoryStatus or GlobalMemoryStatusEx depending on what is 
available.

>> It would be interesting to find out how far back you can go with
>>
>> Windows 95
>> Windows 98, first edition
>> Windows 98, second edition
>> Windows ME
>> Windows NT 3.1
>> Windows NT 3.5
>> Windows NT 4.0
>> Windows 2000
>> Windows XP
>> Windows 2003
>
> I don't get what you mean with that.

I mean that if you tried to run D3 or Q4 on WindowsNT 3.1, say, you might 
find that more than GlobalMemoryStatusEx is required because the kernel of 
NT 3.1 is likely to have less APIs than the kernel of NT2000, say.
It would be easy to work out. Run Depends.exe on D3 or Q4 and get a complete 
list of APIs required, then do a cross check on what each version of Windows 
provides.

> The bottom line is that Doom 3 and Quake 4 will run perfectly well on at
> least WinME and I have read reports of D3 running on 98se.  IMHO there
> was no real good reason to exclude 98/ME systems.

No. But IDSoftware/Raven would have had to do a few code changes to make 
that happen.
Still, it is relatively trivial.

Stephen Howe 

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:11:18 +0000, Stephen Howe wrote:

>> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and this
>> is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.

> In the case of ID Software that is hardly likely.

In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous posts), we
are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were specifically
programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other explanation could there
be?

> Carmack was pretty scathing about Direct3D some time ago and prefers to 
> program for OpenGL.

Some time ago...

> I am not sure how true that is today.

Nor am I, but the 2 games in question are pretty close to "today".  Again,
they were designed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.
 
-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:37:45 +0000, Stephen Howe wrote:

> ID Software could have probed for version of Windows and then done a dynamic 
> call to GlobalMemoryStatus or GlobalMemoryStatusEx depending on what is 
> available.

They could have, but they did not.  I say that in reference to the other
posts regarding game-makers being in bed with M$.  This is a pretty good
argument that they are, isn't it?

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

On 02/09/06 9:54 PM, Dan C wrote:

> In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous posts), we
> are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were specifically
> programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other explanation could there
> be?

'Cause memory management on those operating systems sucks? It was
probably easier for id to specifically code it for 2000/XP than field
questions from people whose video drivers would BSOD every time they
started Doom 3 up...

Besides, if id were in bed with Microsoft, there wouldn't be Linux or
Mac versions of the executables, now would there?

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:28:02 -0500, Chris Odorjan wrote:

> Besides, if id were in bed with Microsoft, there wouldn't be Linux or
> Mac versions of the executables, now would there?

Sure there would be.  That's just a way to further increase profits.  You
can be in bed with someone, and still have other stuff going on...

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

Dan C wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:11:18 +0000, Stephen Howe wrote:
>
>>> That is done because the game makers are in bed with Micro$oft, and
>>> this is one more way to get people to upgrade to XP.
>
>> In the case of ID Software that is hardly likely.
>
> In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous
> posts), we are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were
> specifically programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other
> explanation could there be?
>

That Win95/98/ME blow big fat donkey dongs and always have?
Quite apart from the fact those OSs are older than the Brontosaurus.
No-one accused id of being in bed with M$ when they stopped coding for DOS
and made Quake II Win95-only, did they?

>> I am not sure how true that is today.
>
> Nor am I, but the 2 games in question are pretty close to "today".
> Again, they were designed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.

Cause those OSs suck ass, are less stable than a politician's 'truths' and
id probably stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago.

-- 
-- 
"I hope you don't object to my badgering the witless!"

EvilBill - http://www.evilbill.org.uk
yahoo: evilbill_agqx

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:15:23 +0000, EvilBill wrote:

>> In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous
>> posts), we are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were
>> specifically programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other
>> explanation could there be?
 
> That Win95/98/ME blow big fat donkey dongs and always have?
> Quite apart from the fact those OSs are older than the Brontosaurus.

That's a dumb answer, and is not related to the point, anyway.

> No-one accused id of being in bed with M$ when they stopped coding for DOS
> and made Quake II Win95-only, did they?

Perhaps because M$ made DOS too...?  Gee, you're not the brightest bulb in
the pack, are ya?
 
>> Nor am I, but the 2 games in question are pretty close to "today".
>> Again, they were designed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.
 
> Cause those OSs suck ass, are less stable than a politician's 'truths'
> and id probably stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago.

Another great explanation.  You're pretty smart.
The fact remains that 98 is a better gaming platform than XP in many cases.

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:15:23 +0000, EvilBill wrote:
>
>>> In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous
>>> posts), we are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were
>>> specifically programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other
>>> explanation could there be?
>
>> That Win95/98/ME blow big fat donkey dongs and always have?
>> Quite apart from the fact those OSs are older than the Brontosaurus.
>
> That's a dumb answer, and is not related to the point, anyway.
>
>> No-one accused id of being in bed with M$ when they stopped coding
>> for DOS and made Quake II Win95-only, did they?
>
> Perhaps because M$ made DOS too...?  Gee, you're not the brightest
> bulb in the pack, are ya?
>

M$ also made 95/98/ME, so id stopped coding for one set of Microsoft OSes in
2004 just like they did in 1997. It's easier to code something to support
one or two platforms than to support 4 or 5 especially considering the flaws
and instabilities in the Win9x series.
Hell, if memory serves, they're not even fully 32-bit. They're stuffed full
of old legacy 16-bit code. The NT/2000/XP codebase junked all of that.

>>> Nor am I, but the 2 games in question are pretty close to "today".
>>> Again, they were designed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.
>
>> Cause those OSs suck ass, are less stable than a politician's
>> 'truths' and id probably stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago.
>
> Another great explanation.  You're pretty smart.
> The fact remains that 98 is a better gaming platform than XP in many
> cases.

I've used every Microsoft OS since DOS 3.1 except WinME. I found it hard
enough to keep 95/98 working at all without reinstalling every month, let
alone run games on them well. Personally I've always found Windows 2000 to
be the most stable gaming platform, but XP comes a close second.
I might note here that I could never get sound or Internet to work on
Windows 95... but it works right out of the box on 2000 and XP. I think one
of the issues is not that id themselves code specifically for 2000/XP, but
that drivers for the older OSs are lacking or nonexistent for a lot of
modern hardware. Can you even get DirectX 9 for Windows 95?

-- 
-- 
"I hope you don't object to my badgering the witless!"

EvilBill - http://www.evilbill.org.uk
yahoo: evilbill_agqx

On 02/09/06 11:18 PM, Dan C wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:28:02 -0500, Chris Odorjan wrote:
> 
>>Besides, if id were in bed with Microsoft, there wouldn't be Linux or
>>Mac versions of the executables, now would there?
> 
> Sure there would be.  That's just a way to further increase profits.  You
> can be in bed with someone, and still have other stuff going on...

Not with Microsoft; they chain you to the bed... :-D

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:58:40 -0000, EvilBill wrote:

> Dan C wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:15:23 +0000, EvilBill wrote:
>>
>>>> In case you've forgotten (and you snipped it from the previous
>>>> posts), we are talking about ID games here, D3 and Q4.  They were
>>>> specifically programmed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.  What other
>>>> explanation could there be?
>>
>>> That Win95/98/ME blow big fat donkey dongs and always have?
>>> Quite apart from the fact those OSs are older than the Brontosaurus.
>>
>> That's a dumb answer, and is not related to the point, anyway.
>>
>>> No-one accused id of being in bed with M$ when they stopped coding
>>> for DOS and made Quake II Win95-only, did they?
>>
>> Perhaps because M$ made DOS too...?  Gee, you're not the brightest
>> bulb in the pack, are ya?
>>
> 
> M$ also made 95/98/ME, so id stopped coding for one set of Microsoft OSes in
> 2004 just like they did in 1997. It's easier to code something to support
> one or two platforms than to support 4 or 5 especially considering the flaws
> and instabilities in the Win9x series.

Why not make it even easier and code for just one platform, Win32.  If
D3 was coded with Win32 in mind then (excluding driver support) it would
run on Win95.  Windows95 thru XP are Win32 platforms.  The underlying
differences between 9x and NT are far fewer than the differences between
DOS and 9x and hence the wise desicion to develop Quake 2 for Win32.

> Hell, if memory serves, they're not even fully 32-bit. They're stuffed full
> of old legacy 16-bit code. The NT/2000/XP codebase junked all of that.

So 9x has some 16 bit stuff inside it, big deal.  Didnt stop 32 bit
stuff from running did it?  As for NT, when they took the 16 bit stuff
out it caused some people more greif than 9x did.  Try getting Doom in
it's original form or Doom95 working properly under XP without the aid
of extra software. 

>>>> Nor am I, but the 2 games in question are pretty close to "today".
>>>> Again, they were designed to NOT work on W95/98/ME.
>>
>>> Cause those OSs suck ass, are less stable than a politician's
>>> 'truths' and id probably stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago.
>>
>> Another great explanation.  You're pretty smart.
>> The fact remains that 98 is a better gaming platform than XP in many
>> cases.
> 
> I've used every Microsoft OS since DOS 3.1 except WinME. I found it hard
> enough to keep 95/98 working at all without reinstalling every month, let
> alone run games on them well. Personally I've always found Windows 2000 to
> be the most stable gaming platform, but XP comes a close second.

I have also been using MS's OSs since DOS yadayadayada, including ME.
Quite frankly I have wondered how some people have had so bad a
exeereence with 9x while me and presumebly the majoritory of other MS OS
users have had little or vitually no problem with 9x.  Personnaly I have
had no problem running 9x.  I have had problems with 3rd party software
and drivers running on 9x... just like I do on XP.  In my experience if
a game don't want to run, it won't pretty much whatever OS you run it
on.

> I might note here that I could never get sound or Internet to work on
> Windows 95... but it works right out of the box on 2000 and XP. I think one
> of the issues is not that id themselves code specifically for 2000/XP, but
> that drivers for the older OSs are lacking or nonexistent for a lot of
> modern hardware. Can you even get DirectX 9 for Windows 95?

Functional drivers are available for the major bits of hardware for 9x,
however Dx9 support for 9x is limited to WinME, probably because ME
supports WDM drivers.

At the end of it all IMO getting stuff to work with PCs is down mainly
to luck.  My PC has a AMD X2 cpu, you here lots of people complaining
about compatibility with that, in XP.  Not me.  Latest Geforce drivers
are BSODing many people, in XP.  Not me.  Some people tear their hair
out over Win9x.  Not me. ^_^

Going back to the bit about choosing to support for 1 or 2 OSs rather
than 4 or 5.  IMHO I recon the reason was to save money of tech support.
Why try to make it look like your helping 9x users when you can just
exclude them completely.  MS tried that with 98, and then changed their
mind when they realised the risk of all those companies switching to
another brand of OS rather than shell out hundreds, thousands in
upgrading perfectly good Win98 PCs.  Maybe id think they don't need the
money of the many 9x users still out there.  


-- 
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:45:30 +0000, John Moore wrote:

RE: Patch to make Doom 3 run under W98SE
 
>> ehmmm...
>> "Are you sure?"
> 
> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
> gave me the choice of installing anyway.
> 
> BTW, both my copies of Doom 3 and Quake 4 are bought in the UK published
> by Activision if that makes any difference.
 
I can confirm that indeed it works perfectly with Doom 3. Many thanks.

System: W98SE, 1GB DDR/ dual channel, GeForce 6600, 3GHz P4

It did stutter a bit at first but second time I opened it all was well.

--------------------------------------------------------

I'd about given up hope as I don't normally even run windows. I prefer
Linux. It's supposed to run under Linux but for some reason the screen
that asks for the CD key can't fit all the numbers in the space they
provide.

Does anyone know how the heck you get the CD key in that box under Linux?
If I do it like this...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Instead of

xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xx

Is still 2 characters short. Include the dashes and it's 6 characters too
small. 

IOW it will only accept a string 16 long with NO dashes. The key is 18
long and includes 4 dashes = 22 characters.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:49:13 GMT, Ron Gibson wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:45:30 +0000, John Moore wrote:
> 
> RE: Patch to make Doom 3 run under W98SE
>  
>>> ehmmm...
>>> "Are you sure?"
>> 
>> Quite sure.  Done it with both Doom 3 and Quake 4.  Both times they
>> informed me during setup that I was installing to a unsupported OS, but
>> gave me the choice of installing anyway.
>> 
>> BTW, both my copies of Doom 3 and Quake 4 are bought in the UK published
>> by Activision if that makes any difference.
>  
> I can confirm that indeed it works perfectly with Doom 3. Many thanks.
> 
> System: W98SE, 1GB DDR/ dual channel, GeForce 6600, 3GHz P4
> 
> It did stutter a bit at first but second time I opened it all was well.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I'd about given up hope as I don't normally even run windows. I prefer
> Linux. It's supposed to run under Linux but for some reason the screen
> that asks for the CD key can't fit all the numbers in the space they
> provide.
> 
> Does anyone know how the heck you get the CD key in that box under Linux?
> If I do it like this...
> 
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> Instead of
> 
> xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xx
> 
> Is still 2 characters short. Include the dashes and it's 6 characters too
> small. 
> 
> IOW it will only accept a string 16 long with NO dashes. The key is 18
> long and includes 4 dashes = 22 characters.

One thing you can try is copy the "doomkey" file from the "base" folder
of your Windows installation to the same location in your linux install.

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On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:04:48 +0000, John Moore wrote:
 
> One thing you can try is copy the "doomkey" file from the "base" folder
> of your Windows installation to the same location in your linux
> install.

Yeah I was thinking I might try that. All it can do is not work. Just
noticed that this morning and haven't had a chance to give it a go.

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 20:56:44 -0600, Dan C wrote:

>> ID Software could have probed for version of Windows and then done a
>> dynamic call to GlobalMemoryStatus or GlobalMemoryStatusEx depending on
>> what is available.
 
> They could have, but they did not.  I say that in reference to the other
> posts regarding game-makers being in bed with M$.  This is a pretty good
> argument that they are, isn't it?

You think :-)

I mean I know they have pulled some petty BS, but twisting ID's,
Activision's or whomever's arm to do this (since it would seem totally
unnecessary to have done so for the game to work properly) takes the
cake.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:11:18 +0000, Stephen Howe wrote:
 
> In the case of ID Software that is hardly likely. Carmack was pretty
> scathing about Direct3D some time ago and prefers to program for OpenGL.
> I am not sure how true that is today.
 
> You might want to read
> http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/windoze/OpenGLvsDirect3D.html for
> background info (it is now quite old)
 
> and also
> http://rmitz.org/carmack.on.opengl.html
 
Very good reading. I've been away from games for a while and it's
interesting to see what has been happening.

It sure would seem wise to me to use the most flexible standards. That
will sell more software and hold down development costs.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:15:23 +0000, EvilBill wrote:

> Cause those OSs suck ass, are less stable than a politician's 'truths'
> and id probably stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago.
 
They work just fine for me. 

But neither are my OS of choice. I hate having to run a zillion utilities
to keep virus free and keep a registry is shape albeit regedit works
about as good as anything else.

I've run windows, OS/2 and Linux all at the same time, triple boot, for
@12 years now so I've had a chance to compare the "suckiness" of OS's. If
I upgrade my windows it will be to W2K. But as of now I have no reason to.

I would not sopend any more money on OS/2 as it no longer is supported
and can't be released as open source into the public domain, AFAIK.

Likewise for Linux I've done many comparisons and have my favorite
distros.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:58:40 +0000, EvilBill wrote:
 
> I've used every Microsoft OS since DOS 3.1 except WinME. I found it hard
> enough to keep 95/98 working at all without reinstalling every month, let
> alone run games on them well. Personally I've always found Windows 2000 to
> be the most stable gaming platform, but XP comes a close second. I might
> note here that I could never get sound or Internet to work on Windows
> 95... but it works right out of the box on 2000 and XP. I think one of the

Well that's just total nonsense. You never should have to reinstall if
you've learned anything in all those years. And today with the low cost
of mass storage there is no excuse not to have your ass covered with a
backup solution. If you do otherwise you must not have any important
data or are just reckless.

You restore your last good backup if something goes wrong NOT reinstall.

I keep the OS on one partition and the apps and data on another. Should
things go south after say installing some application of partition D
(one of three for data and apps), I simply hook up a backup drive,
restore the OS on C drive and restore D drive only. There is more to say
but that's enough to make the point.

That takes me maybe 15 minutes to back out with no loss of data.

I've got applications and data on my machine that are also 12 years old
like ACAD drawings and various simulations with engineering applications.

If I reformatted and reinstalled every time something went wrong that
would make it highly unlikely for that to happen with some data loss and
very probably a LOT of data loss = Lost work and $$$.

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:28:02 -0500, Chris Odorjan wrote:
 
> Besides, if id were in bed with Microsoft, there wouldn't be Linux or
> Mac versions of the executables, now would there?

Well the point has some merit but porting games to versions of the MS OS
to the exclusion of W98SE when M$ themselves still support W98SE would
that would tend to force people to spend more $$$ on an OS they don't
apparently don't HAVE to have.

If sort of hard to not think MS is doing some arm twisting. It's not like
they've never done it before.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:08:47 -0500, Chris Odorjan wrote:
 
>> Sure there would be.  That's just a way to further increase profits. 
>> You can be in bed with someone, and still have other stuff going on...
 
> Not with Microsoft; they chain you to the bed... :-D

Oh my, that's kinky :-)

On 02/13/06 8:58 PM, Ron Gibson wrote:

> Well the point has some merit but porting games to versions of the MS OS
> to the exclusion of W98SE when M$ themselves still support W98SE would
> that would tend to force people to spend more $$$ on an OS they don't
> apparently don't HAVE to have.

In that case we'll attribute it to Microsoft's own stupidity: force the
million or so users running Windows 98 but meeting the hardware
requirements for Doom 3 to upgrade, instead of the tens (probably
hundreds) of millions running Windows 98 _anywhere_ to upgrade by
discontinuing support for it...

(See Hanlon's Razor)

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:54:40 +0000, John Moore wrote:
 
> Im non to fond of Micro$haft's products either, but until Linsux can run
> ALL the software I use and is guranteed not to nuke my hard drive's
> partition table and MBR upon installation (which it has on the 3rd
> occasion I decide to try it) then Im sticking with Windblows....
 
I multi-boot myself. If it nuked your partition table you used the wrong
distro or made a mistake. The MBR can be an issue (albeit there are docs
that tell you how to avoid that or fix easily). Myself I use a boot
loader in the MBR called Vpart, DOS based, because I can restore my boot
configuration (which is what gets screwed up) in less than a minute with
it. It's so easy to use a 16 year old could do it and it's free.

Now I chainload and that a bit complicated sounding but all it means is
that what you chose on boot from Vpart flags the selected partition as
active, If linux is selected then boot up is transfered to lilo on the
partition that linux resides on (IOW, the root partition).

If anyone needs or wants Vpart I can make it available or email it to
you. Like any low level utility I would not recommend using it unless you
understood what I just said above and have a backup solution. Murphys Law
- If it can go wrong, it will. If you need to boot one of multiple primary
partitions, there are better solutions, but they are also "bulkier".

I use Partition Magic and Drive Image for creating, resizing, and
maintaining partitions. I find they are superior to anything that either
MS or Linux provides. 

I put all of these utilities on one bootable CD and it makes these chores
a piece of cake to use.

But anyway always use what you are comfortable using. Howeven never fall
into the trap of getting too comfortable. No matter what the OS, computers
are all high maintenance devices and it takes work to keep  of them
running optimally.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:19:52 +0000, John Moore wrote:
 
> Simply locate you "Send To" folder (you may need to make hidden system
> files visible tho), right click and select copy.  Then enter the Send To
> folder and right click in it and select Paste shortcut.  Now when you wnat
> to add something to the send to menu all you have to do is right click and
> "Send to Send To"!

Oh thanx for a link to FED also. I do little hex editing but this is one
of the best hex editors I've looked at. I definitely liked it better than
the one that the other guy suggested.

I'm sure there are even better but the price was right :-)

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 02:29:21 GMT, Ron Gibson wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:54:40 +0000, John Moore wrote:

<snip>

> No matter what the OS, computers
> are all high maintenance devices and it takes work to keep  of them
> running optimally.

(WARNING! NOT SARCASM!)

To be honest with you, thats the most intelligent computer related
comment I have heard for a long time.  The world would be a better place
if ALL comuter users, not just us, understood this fact.

.
.
.
.
Actually not, the IT support industry would suffer quite a bit because
it wouldn't repetedly need to remind customers that their PC isn't
plugged in! ^_^

-- 
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Obi Wan: : "Mr. speaker, we are for the big"
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:35:51 GMT, Ron Gibson wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:04:48 +0000, John Moore wrote:
>  
>> One thing you can try is copy the "doomkey" file from the "base" folder
>> of your Windows installation to the same location in your linux
>> install.
> 
> Yeah I was thinking I might try that. All it can do is not work. Just
> noticed that this morning and haven't had a chance to give it a go.

I just took a look inside my doomkey file.  Its just a regualar text
file with the following text inside it:

****************
// Do not give this file to ANYONE.
// id Software and Activision will NOT ask you to send this file to
them.

Try replacing the asterixes with your CD key and save it as "doomkey".
That might also work.  BTW, the keys for D£ and the expansion have 2
extra letters/numbers at the end.  I don't think they mean enything to
the game as my copy of D3 the last two characters are "04".  Probably
menaing 'made in 04'.

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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:36:28 +0000, John Moore wrote:

> extra letters/numbers at the end.  I don't think they mean enything to
> the game as my copy of D3 the last two characters are "04".  Probably
> menaing 'made in 04'.

Nope.  My last two characters are "DD".

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

Ron Gibson wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:58:40 +0000, EvilBill wrote:
>
>> I've used every Microsoft OS since DOS 3.1 except WinME. I found it
>> hard enough to keep 95/98 working at all without reinstalling every
>> month, let alone run games on them well. Personally I've always
>> found Windows 2000 to be the most stable gaming platform, but XP
>> comes a close second. I might note here that I could never get sound
>> or Internet to work on Windows
>> 95... but it works right out of the box on 2000 and XP. I think one
>> of the
>
> Well that's just total nonsense. You never should have to reinstall if
> you've learned anything in all those years. And today with the low
> cost of mass storage there is no excuse not to have your ass covered
> with a backup solution. If you do otherwise you must not have any
> important data or are just reckless.
>
> You restore your last good backup if something goes wrong NOT
> reinstall.
>
> I keep the OS on one partition and the apps and data on another.
> Should things go south after say installing some application of
> partition D (one of three for data and apps), I simply hook up a
> backup drive, restore the OS on C drive and restore D drive only.
> There is more to say but that's enough to make the point.
>
> That takes me maybe 15 minutes to back out with no loss of data.
>
> I've got applications and data on my machine that are also 12 years
> old like ACAD drawings and various simulations with engineering
> applications.
>
> If I reformatted and reinstalled every time something went wrong that
> would make it highly unlikely for that to happen with some data loss
> and very probably a LOT of data loss = Lost work and $$$.

Back when I had 98 I had no backup solution at all (I was a piss-poor
student at first, then out of work for a while, so I didn't have money to
spend on CD burners and extra HDs.) The last time I reinstalled XP was when
I got a new rig :) ATM I have two HDs, one for the OS and apps and the other
for data, but I've got a DVD burner too so every so often I just blast all
the stuff I need to keep onto DVD. Simplistic solution I know, but better
than what I had back in my 98 days: a single tiny HD and 72 floppies ;)

-- 
-- 
"I hope you don't object to my badgering the witless!"

EvilBill - http://www.evilbill.org.uk
yahoo: evilbill_agqx

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:59:42 +0000, EvilBill wrote:

> Back when I had 98 I had no backup solution at all (I was a piss-poor
> student at first, then out of work for a while, so I didn't have money
> to
> spend on CD burners and extra HDs.) The last time I reinstalled XP was
> when I got a new rig :) ATM I have two HDs, one for the OS and apps and
> the other for data, but I've got a DVD burner too so every so often I just
> blast all the stuff I need to keep onto DVD. Simplistic solution I know,
> but better than what I had back in my 98 days: a single tiny HD and 72
> floppies ;)
 
Hell that's better than most people. My neighbor the other day wanted me
to fix her XP that she had business records on and no backuo or install
media ! Good grief it was unbootable. I didn't even want to try as that
was a losing situation for me. Most likely I could have booted it off a
live Cd like Slax or Knoppix and recovered some over a LAN or whatever
but frankly I didn't want to get involved in that mess.

I tell ya, I used to have a good ol' Colorado Jumbo tape drive. Then  I
went to removable HD's and i hope to gawd I never see another tape drive
as long as I live.

That's what I would suggest. Get a removable HD caddy and a EIDE 
HD. It takes me about 50 minutes to completely backup a 80 GB drive with
Drive Image. That in combination with PMagic are great tools. But
Symantec killed DImage. I have the last version which is NTFS capable
along with ext2 and ext3 (Linux file systems). 

Drive Image is so much better than Ghost, IMO. If you go that route and
want a copy (DI) I'll let you have one since it's out of production. But
if you have no other FS's than MS ones, Ghost will work OK I guess.

Forget anything else as it's all the same thing - Paragon and it's a
piece of crap, I mean totally useless. They market the same product under
several name they bought out.

I tried the demo and it whacks the partition tables and boot records,
leaving you with an unbootable system. I reported it to them and they
said "This is a known problem".

Huh ??? And you want me to pay for this crap ???

I planned for such a problem and had a reliable backup. So I reformatted
and restored the good backup.

Put DI and other utilities on a CD, pop in the removable HD and you are
ready to rock.

Ron Gibson wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:59:42 +0000, EvilBill wrote:
> 
>> Back when I had 98 I had no backup solution at all (I was a piss-poor
>> student at first, then out of work for a while, so I didn't have money
>> to
>> spend on CD burners and extra HDs.) The last time I reinstalled XP was
>> when I got a new rig :) ATM I have two HDs, one for the OS and apps and
>> the other for data, but I've got a DVD burner too so every so often I just
>> blast all the stuff I need to keep onto DVD. Simplistic solution I know,
>> but better than what I had back in my 98 days: a single tiny HD and 72
>> floppies ;)
>  
> Hell that's better than most people. My neighbor the other day wanted me
> to fix her XP that she had business records on and no backuo or install
> media ! Good grief it was unbootable. I didn't even want to try as that
> was a losing situation for me. Most likely I could have booted it off a
> live Cd like Slax or Knoppix and recovered some over a LAN or whatever
> but frankly I didn't want to get involved in that mess.
> 
> I tell ya, I used to have a good ol' Colorado Jumbo tape drive. Then  I
> went to removable HD's and i hope to gawd I never see another tape drive
> as long as I live.
> 
> That's what I would suggest. Get a removable HD caddy and a EIDE 
> HD. It takes me about 50 minutes to completely backup a 80 GB drive with
> Drive Image. That in combination with PMagic are great tools. But
> Symantec killed DImage. I have the last version which is NTFS capable
> along with ext2 and ext3 (Linux file systems). 
> 
> Drive Image is so much better than Ghost, IMO. If you go that route and
> want a copy (DI) I'll let you have one since it's out of production. But
> if you have no other FS's than MS ones, Ghost will work OK I guess.
> 
> Forget anything else as it's all the same thing - Paragon and it's a
> piece of crap, I mean totally useless. They market the same product under
> several name they bought out.
> 
> I tried the demo and it whacks the partition tables and boot records,
> leaving you with an unbootable system. I reported it to them and they
> said "This is a known problem".
> 
> Huh ??? And you want me to pay for this crap ???
> 
> I planned for such a problem and had a reliable backup. So I reformatted
> and restored the good backup.
> 
> Put DI and other utilities on a CD, pop in the removable HD and you are
> ready to rock.

This one is really good.

<http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/choose-trueimage/>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:26:19 -0600, NuQ wrote:
 
> This one is really good.
 
> <http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/choose-trueimage/>

I've heard so. When I was test driving demos, I saw some of the crap and
decided I would not buy until I was sure that it would work.
Unfortunately the Acronis demo was too crippled to test one critical
feature I needed and I soon found an old copy of DImage.

But anyway like I said some other guys that have XP and Linux both say
it's a good one.