🚀 go-pugleaf

On 2/28/2005 7:06 AM Servo brightened our day with:

> I'm seriously thinking of picking up an LCD monitor (a 19" or 22" 
> Samsung). Would any of you care to wiegh in on your experience with 
> LCDs? How do games like DOOM and UT look and work with them? I've read 
> in the past that there's a noticable lag with some models. Any input 
> would be helpful.

The only thing I notice is a little funkiness when Doom 3 gets "really" 
dark (I know it's dark all the time but some places are darker than 
others).  It's hard to describe, but you sort of start seeing the LCD 
screen rather than what's rendered.
This can be cured for me usually by just sitting up straight so that 
you're sitting more correctly in the viewable area arc of the monitor, I 
have a tendency to slump down in my chair when playing games, my LCD 
screen has got me to improve my posture.

I have a Sony 17" DVI monitor, it's great except for this one damn bad 
pixel.   Having 1 bad pixel is worse than having more, because if you 
have more they'll actually replace the monitor.

It's a 16 ms monitor, all of the common complaints, e.g. ghosting, I've 
had none of.

Get a DVI capable monitor whatever you do.  A lot of the less expensive 
LCD monitors are VGA only, which is silly.  If you've got a halfway 
decent and recent video card you've got a DVI out on it. 

-- 
Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

In my experience the most important factor is to buy a monitor with a good 
response time. Mine is a Samsung Xiod IM17SM with a 16ms response time, and 
everything looks fine on it.

-- 

Martin

My address is spam trapped...
...please reply to the group - thanks.



...please reply to the group - thanks.
"Servo" <SPAMMERS@getcancer.nuts> wrote in message 
news:KrGUd.4502$DW.2631@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> I'm seriously thinking of picking up an LCD monitor (a 19" or 22" 
> Samsung). Would any of you care to wiegh in on your experience with LCDs? 
> How do games like DOOM and UT look and work with them? I've read in the 
> past that there's a noticable lag with some models. Any input would be 
> helpful.
> -- 
> Servo
> "There's no such thing as Mr. Hankey"
> tservo100 at
> ameritech dot net
> Slow, fiery death to all spammers!!! 

Servo wasted my time on 2/28/2005 10:06 AM with the following:
> I'm seriously thinking of picking up an LCD monitor (a 19" or 22" 
> Samsung). Would any of you care to wiegh in on your experience with 
> LCDs? How do games like DOOM and UT look and work with them? I've read 
> in the past that there's a noticable lag with some models. Any input 
> would be helpful.

I'm a moron when it comes to monitors, but I have a LCD (15" VGA :() 
hooked up to my radeon 9600SE, and Doom 3 looks fine on it.  Hell, I 
even tweaked the settings a little and made it a little like my pal's 
21" plasma (man, I was praying for some unfortunate accident to befall him)

UT looks pretty good to me too on an LCD.  I can't speak from experience 
about DVI, but I would say to go with that.

As far as lag, I get a total of 0.

-- 
-SnoopJeDi

"Servo" <SPAMMERS@getcancer.nuts> wrote in message
news:KrGUd.4502$DW.2631@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com
> I'm seriously thinking of picking up an LCD monitor (a 19" or 22"
> Samsung). Would any of you care to wiegh in on your experience with
> LCDs? How do games like DOOM and UT look and work with them? I've read
> in the past that there's a noticable lag with some models. Any input
> would be helpful.

Lag???  Hm.  I am using a 19" Envision LCD.  It's *response* time is 26 
ms total.  Although using the DVI improves 'ghosting' quite a bit over 
using the analog VGA, it doesn't eliminate it.  It's still very useable 
in games, though not perfect.
My 17" NEC  LCD has a 16ms response time, analog VGA only, and no 
noticeable ghosting at all in games or movies.  But it's only 17".
McG. 

"Inglo" <ioo@??.żżż> wrote in message
news:GxHUd.7905$OU1.3891@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
> On 2/28/2005 7:06 AM Servo brightened our day with:
>
>> I'm seriously thinking of picking up an LCD monitor (a 19" or 22"
>> Samsung). Would any of you care to wiegh in on your experience with
>> LCDs? How do games like DOOM and UT look and work with them? I've
>> read in the past that there's a noticable lag with some models. Any
>> input would be helpful.
>
> The only thing I notice is a little funkiness when Doom 3 gets
> "really" dark (I know it's dark all the time but some places are
> darker than others).  It's hard to describe, but you sort of start
> seeing the LCD screen rather than what's rendered.
> This can be cured for me usually by just sitting up straight so that
> you're sitting more correctly in the viewable area arc of the
> monitor, I have a tendency to slump down in my chair when playing
> games, my LCD screen has got me to improve my posture.
>
> I have a Sony 17" DVI monitor, it's great except for this one damn bad
> pixel.   Having 1 bad pixel is worse than having more, because if you
> have more they'll actually replace the monitor.
>
> It's a 16 ms monitor, all of the common complaints, e.g. ghosting,
> I've had none of.
>
> Get a DVI capable monitor whatever you do.  A lot of the less
> expensive LCD monitors are VGA only, which is silly.  If you've got a
> halfway decent and recent video card you've got a DVI out on it.

1 dead pixel.  I sure hope it's out near an edge somewhere Steve. 
That's gotta be irritating.  I guess I've really been very fortunate 
man.  I managed to buy three LCD monitors with no dead pixels before I 
even heard of "dead pixel"!  Yeah, i bought em, got em home, set em up 
and bang, great image and auto adjust etc.  Beautiful.  I heard about 
"dead pixel" problems about the time I did buy this third one, the 
Envision.  It's not the best for games, or movies, but it isn't *bad*. 
If there's fast movement with high contrasting edges/lines, then you see 
the ghosting pretty well.   That's 26ms total response time, vs 16 
total.
For Doom3 and HL2, I didn't really notice it.
McG. 

I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd.   Every 
single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck pixel or 
bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary monitor on this 
computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in the upper right corner, 
1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.

-- 

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

On 3/1/2005 7:26 AM Margolis brightened our day with:

>I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd.   Every 
>single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck pixel or 
>bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary monitor on this 
>computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in the upper right corner, 
>1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.
>
>  
>
The worst thing about dead pixels is you can ignore them probably 90% of 
the time, but once you become consciously aware of it it just burns a 
hole right through your forehead.  Actually a dead pixel would be more 
preferable than what I have which is a stuck red pixel.
Mine's right between the Subject field and the text area of this Compose 
window I'm typing in right now. 
Dead or stuck pixels at least aren't much of a bother when gaming, it's 
pretty hard to notice them when all that stuff is happening, but when 
you're reading a web page that's text on a white background, it's harder 
to ignore.
The other thing is, the monitor didn't show up from NewEgg with the bad 
pixel, when I got it I ran some tests.  It wasn't until about a week 
later that the pixel went red and stayed red.

-- 
Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

"Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
news:VX%Ud.20449$uV.5773@fe06.lga
> I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd. 
> Every single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck
> pixel or bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary
> monitor on this computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in
> the upper right corner, 1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.

That would tick me off.  If it had one right IN the corner, then a fine 
point magic marker fixes it somewhat.  Normally, I seem to be the 
luckless one.  Bought two bad Ti4600's when they first came out.  Went 
to ATI for a bit.  Back with Nvidia for a bit now.
Funny, you don't see LCD's on display in the stores with dead pixels.
With all the problems I've been hearing on people getting new LCD's with 
bad pixels, I think I'll be looking at the thing work IN the store 
before I pay for it.  Cause they have a rule, x number of bad ones to 
return it.  As far as I'm concerned, one is too many.
McG. 

On 3/1/2005 5:27 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with:

>"Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
>news:VX%Ud.20449$uV.5773@fe06.lga
>  
>
>>I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd. 
>>Every single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck
>>pixel or bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary
>>monitor on this computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in
>>the upper right corner, 1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.
>>    
>>
>
>That would tick me off.  If it had one right IN the corner, then a fine 
>point magic marker fixes it somewhat.  Normally, I seem to be the 
>luckless one.  Bought two bad Ti4600's when they first came out.  Went 
>to ATI for a bit.  Back with Nvidia for a bit now.
>Funny, you don't see LCD's on display in the stores with dead pixels.
>With all the problems I've been hearing on people getting new LCD's with 
>bad pixels, I think I'll be looking at the thing work IN the store 
>before I pay for it.  Cause they have a rule, x number of bad ones to 
>return it.  As far as I'm concerned, one is too many.
>McG. 
>
>
>  
>
If you could return an LCD monitor that had one bad pixel and get it 
replaced, LCD monitors would cost twice as much as they do. 

-- 
Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

"Inglo" <ioo@??.żżż> wrote in message
news:1EaVd.1944$C47.1508@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com
> On 3/1/2005 5:27 PM McGrandpa brightened our day with:
>
>> "Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
>> news:VX%Ud.20449$uV.5773@fe06.lga
>>
>>
>>> I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd.
>>> Every single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck
>>> pixel or bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary
>>> monitor on this computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in
>>> the upper right corner, 1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That would tick me off.  If it had one right IN the corner, then a
>> fine point magic marker fixes it somewhat.  Normally, I seem to be
>> the luckless one.  Bought two bad Ti4600's when they first came out.
>> Went to ATI for a bit.  Back with Nvidia for a bit now.
>> Funny, you don't see LCD's on display in the stores with dead pixels.
>> With all the problems I've been hearing on people getting new LCD's
>> with bad pixels, I think I'll be looking at the thing work IN the
>> store before I pay for it.  Cause they have a rule, x number of bad
>> ones to return it.  As far as I'm concerned, one is too many.
>> McG.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> If you could return an LCD monitor that had one bad pixel and get it
> replaced, LCD monitors would cost twice as much as they do.

Yep.  Probably why the prices are going down now.   People are accepting 
bad pixels.  Mine didn't come so cheap.  None of the three were less 
than $450.   I will definitely be looking at whatever one I buy right in 
the store.  Unless they make me pay for it before opening the box. 

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:27:19 GMT, "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
>news:VX%Ud.20449$uV.5773@fe06.lga
>> I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd. 
>> Every single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck
>> pixel or bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary
>> monitor on this computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in
>> the upper right corner, 1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.
>
>That would tick me off.  If it had one right IN the corner, then a fine 
>point magic marker fixes it somewhat.  Normally, I seem to be the 
>luckless one.  Bought two bad Ti4600's when they first came out.  Went 
>to ATI for a bit.  Back with Nvidia for a bit now.
>Funny, you don't see LCD's on display in the stores with dead pixels.
>With all the problems I've been hearing on people getting new LCD's with 
>bad pixels, I think I'll be looking at the thing work IN the store 
>before I pay for it.

There aren't many manufacturers that have a zero defect tolerance -
usually, the manufacturers refer their monitors as being Class II, which
allows for a few defective pixels.  As long as they keep referring to this
obsolete standard, there isn't really anything that can be done.  

I'm sure you've already read this article, but for those who haven't:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/index.html

>  Cause they have a rule, x number of bad ones to 
>return it.  As far as I'm concerned, one is too many.

The standard was really meant for small LCDs: 640x480 or 800x600.  Even
then, the standard still feels to be a little lenient.  

"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:jk7d21tbdsu5q0namrha3ghmm5vv48h518@4ax.com
> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:27:19 GMT, "McGrandpa"
> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
>> news:VX%Ud.20449$uV.5773@fe06.lga
>>> I don't have that kind of luck.  I have never seen a "perfect" lcd.
>>> Every single one I have looked at I have found a dead pixel or stuck
>>> pixel or bright pixel or something along those lines.  My secondary
>>> monitor on this computer is a 15" lcd with one bright red pixel in
>>> the upper right corner, 1/4" from the top and 1" from the right.
>>
>> That would tick me off.  If it had one right IN the corner, then a
>> fine point magic marker fixes it somewhat.  Normally, I seem to be
>> the luckless one.  Bought two bad Ti4600's when they first came out.
>> Went to ATI for a bit.  Back with Nvidia for a bit now.
>> Funny, you don't see LCD's on display in the stores with dead pixels.
>> With all the problems I've been hearing on people getting new LCD's
>> with bad pixels, I think I'll be looking at the thing work IN the
>> store before I pay for it.
>
> There aren't many manufacturers that have a zero defect tolerance -
> usually, the manufacturers refer their monitors as being Class II,
> which allows for a few defective pixels.  As long as they keep
> referring to this obsolete standard, there isn't really anything that
> can be done.
>
> I'm sure you've already read this article, but for those who haven't:
> http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/index.html
>
>>  Cause they have a rule, x number of bad ones to
>> return it.  As far as I'm concerned, one is too many.
>
> The standard was really meant for small LCDs: 640x480 or 800x600.
> Even then, the standard still feels to be a little lenient.

I've read that now, all of it.  Yeah, I'd seen it before and just 
skimmed over it.  But with the flat panel displays becoming much more 
commonplace  and a lot less expensive, it seems the customer is going to 
be getting dumped on pretty hard if the customer doesn't do something to 
protect themselves.  Like try to ensure they are getting what they want 
before putting their money on it.   For me, this means no online or mail 
orders, hands on the unit in operation first.  I didn't do this with any 
of the three I bought.  My last one I got about a year ago now.  I don't 
know how I got so lucky.   Three LCD panels with 0 'defective' pixels. 
I see by the standard that many things are taken into account, but still 
the bottom line is a bad dot is a bad dot.  You can see any of them if 
they're anywhere on the screen, but I'd tolerate a defective one on the 
very edge.  But not anywhere in the middle.
I bought all three of mine at one Circuit City location right here by 
me.   The second one, an NEC  1760LV blk was the display unit, and I got 
it because it was the one I wanted and the only one they had.  They gave 
me $50 off for 'open box' sale :)  It's got a perfect screen too.  So I 
could see what it was though I wasn't looking on purpose.  Just turned 
out that way.  Any I buy in the future, I will see it running and check 
it out before buying or I won't buy it.  That simple.
That covers everything but pixels going bad after it's used a bit. 
Sigh.  Never ends eh?
McG. 

On 3/3/2005 2:59 AM McGrandpa brightened our day with:

>
>>The standard was really meant for small LCDs: 640x480 or 800x600.
>>Even then, the standard still feels to be a little lenient.
>>    
>>
>
>That covers everything but pixels going bad after it's used a bit. 
>Sigh.  Never ends eh?
>McG. 
>
>
>  
>
Like I think I said, mine came out of the box pristine.  It wasn't until 
about a week letter that the pixel got stuck on red.  I really don't 
mind that much, that's the way you have to be, the more you focus on it 
the more it bugs you.  Sometimes I forget about for days, just remove it 
from conscious view.
The bad pixel thing is a total crap shoot.  I have a top brand monitor 
(Sony) bought from a reputable retailer (NewEgg), I can't think of being 
much safer, even if I bought this from a brick and mortar I would have 
still ended up with the b.p.
Besides the other issues, I bet there are tons of people out there who 
just don't notice the bad pixels.  I'm not really sure if I had the 
opportunity, whether I'd bother with getting this replaced if Sony had a 
0 b.p. policy.
More than likely I'll sell this monitor in a year or so for $200 and 
cross my fingers that the next one will be perfect.

-- 
Steve ¤»Inglo«¤
www.inglostadt.com

"Inglo" <ioo@??.żżż> wrote in message
news:VNEVd.8809$OU1.3346@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
> On 3/3/2005 2:59 AM McGrandpa brightened our day with:
>
>>
>>> The standard was really meant for small LCDs: 640x480 or 800x600.
>>> Even then, the standard still feels to be a little lenient.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That covers everything but pixels going bad after it's used a bit.
>> Sigh.  Never ends eh?
>> McG.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Like I think I said, mine came out of the box pristine.  It wasn't
> until about a week letter that the pixel got stuck on red.  I really
> don't mind that much, that's the way you have to be, the more you
> focus on it the more it bugs you.  Sometimes I forget about for days,
> just remove it from conscious view.
> The bad pixel thing is a total crap shoot.  I have a top brand monitor
> (Sony) bought from a reputable retailer (NewEgg), I can't think of
> being much safer, even if I bought this from a brick and mortar I
> would have still ended up with the b.p.
> Besides the other issues, I bet there are tons of people out there who
> just don't notice the bad pixels.  I'm not really sure if I had the
> opportunity, whether I'd bother with getting this replaced if Sony
> had a 0 b.p. policy.
> More than likely I'll sell this monitor in a year or so for $200 and
> cross my fingers that the next one will be perfect.

You're a pretty cool guy Steve.  But you're right too.  What do ya do 
when you get it pristine and a pixel gets stuck later?

I wonder if really fast response time can have anything to do with that?

McG. 

McGrandpa wrote:

Press gently with you nail on 'dead' pixel.

I've fixed it several times that way!

Other solution, just a little drop of black ink if nail will not fix it 
and pixel is bright red.

:)