🚀 go-pugleaf

Chad Nesbit wrote:
> 
> I am a cheater with the following philosophy:
> 
> 1) Not all cheaters are the same, I don't hurt anyone, I don't townkill or
> player kill whatsoever.

     Sounds good to me.

> 2) I help out newbies by following them and res-ing them if they get into
> trouble, Result: Most of them enjoy the game more.

     That's good. Just be sure not to give them any duped items unless
they are aware they are receiving a duped item.

> 4) *My* game doesn't interfere with *your* game so *how* am i ruining the
> games of non-cheaters?

     Not at all.

> 5) If anyone asks me if i am cheating i'm honest about it. If they prefer i
> leave then I do so.

     Excellent.

> 6) I don't tell you how to play your game...
> 
> If anyone has a problem with these i feel sorry for them...


     Well, Chad, I do wish there were more cheaters like you out there
(if there have to be cheaters at all, that is). While I personally feel
that cheating detracts from the game it is your decision whether or not
to do so. As long as your cheating does not in any way affect my
gameplay then more power to you! Have fun!

Gordon Wilson
gkwi...@ix.netcom.com
IronWill on battle.net and KALI

nes...@epix.net (Chad Nesbit) wrote:

>I am a cheater with the following philosophy:
>
[snip]

One of the most significant aspects of the game was SUPPOSED to be the
value of the better weapons , armor etc . In this way people who truly
worked at the game might develop very strong characters while those
who were unwilling or unable to would not.

The duping has made gold and other items has made them virtually
valueless. Giving high level items to people just starting the game
accomplishes the following :

1. Ruining the game for the beginer by removing the excitement
experienced when a valuable item is earned.

2. Completely destroying the concept of item value for everyone in the
game.

3. Makes the giver feel important at the expense of the game.

So yes , I have a problem with people who do not think the effect of
their actions through.

Let me just say that I am no anti-cheat crusader. The cat is out of
the bag and it is already too late for this game. What you do with the
game you purchased is your business. To sit there and claim that your
actions don't have a negative effect on others though , is
rationalization. Not even a good rationalization at that.

-jls

In article <5fbgci$6...@news1.epix.net>, nes...@epix.net (Chad Nesbit) wrote:
>I am a cheater with the following philosophy:
>
>1) Not all cheaters are the same, I don't hurt anyone, I don't townkill or 
>player kill whatsoever.
>2) I help out newbies by following them and res-ing them if they get into 
>trouble, Result: Most of them enjoy the game more.
>3) I personally enjoy the game more not having to worry about getting killed 
>by monsters, tkers or pkers.
>4) *My* game doesn't interfere with *your* game so *how* am i ruining the 
>games of non-cheaters? 
>5) If anyone asks me if i am cheating i'm honest about it. If they prefer i 
>leave then I do so.
>6) I don't tell you how to play your game... 
>
>If anyone has a problem with these i feel sorry for them...
>
>
>Ladwick
>
>
>

By cheating you affect two things :-

* People who knows you cheat would want the program you had. They will then 
distribute all around, eventually to people who will ruin other's game.

* If you cheat by duping things and in turn help others by giving them 
all-powerful tools, you caused the value of these powerful tools (armor, 
weapons etc..) to de-value. I've come across newbies who are so lazy that he 
can't bother to play the game but keep bugging people for special armor, 
weapons etc...

Anyway, there are always good and bad guys around. The fact that you do not 
ruin other's game does not mean your method of playing will cause other people 
not to have their games ruin as well. This is more so when the game is played 
over the net. If this is a single-player-only game, I suppose whether you 
cheat or not is not anyone's business.

Just my 2 cents.




WiL :)

Email <<tb...@valuserve.com>>

> I am a cheater with the following philosophy:

<snipping out the middle part>

> 6) I don't tell you how to play your game... 
>
>Ladwick

That's the important part. Most people are under the impression that you're
playing the SAME game by the SAME rules as them. When you decide to change
the rules for yourself the only honest thing to do is to let people know.
If they don't mind, then there isn't a problem at all. If they do mind,
find someone else to play with. 

The problem with doing it "secretly" is that you're basically a liar, and
you're robbing the people you play with of the experience of playing the
game WITHIN the rules. If there is no secrecy, you're really not cheating
at all.

Remember, YOU are the one who decided you like the game better when you
"cheat." Most people prefer to play within the rules. But if you're not
playing with THEM, their opinion isn't relevant. 

Cheat all you want in a single player game, or with other people who don't
mind. If you're doing something other than that you're simply reflecting
poor character. The moral is: when you're playing a game with other people
- the opinions of the other people matter. When uninvolved bystanders offer
their opinions, you're welcome to listen or not.

>>>>> Ricarthious  <gre...@hotmail.com> writes:

> I was surprised when I first got started with B.net to be offered
> continuously item after item from higher level players wanting nothing
> in return.  It's a shame a better system couldn't be worked out,
> concerning money, and unique items.

When I'm wandering around in Hell on Normal, I'll just dump everything I
find but don't want in the town square for others to use.  Seems OK
to me.

Jason

Ricarthious wrote:
> 
> Look!  Look here!  Gordon K Wilson <gkwi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote this:
> 
> >     Well, Chad, I do wish there were more cheaters like you out there
> >(if there have to be cheaters at all, that is). While I personally feel
> >that cheating detracts from the game it is your decision whether or not
> >to do so. As long as your cheating does not in any way affect my
> >gameplay then more power to you! Have fun!
> 
> I do agree we need more cheaters like him, and we'd all be a lot
> happier, but you're forgetting that if he cheats by creating items for
> himself out of thin air, and then *giving* them away to other players,
> he is completely de-valuing that item.


     That's why I said "As long as your cheating does not IN ANY WAY
affect my gameplay then more power to you!" If he gives duped items away
then that does affect my play. If he keeps his duped items to himself,
however, then there is no harm done.

Gordon Wilson
gkwi...@ix.netcom.com
IronWill on battle.net and KALI

In article <331993...@ix.netcom.com>,
Gordon K Wilson  <gkwi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 1) Not all cheaters are the same, I don't hurt anyone, I don't townkill or
>> player kill whatsoever.
>
>> 2) I help out newbies by following them and res-ing them if they get into
>> trouble, Result: Most of them enjoy the game more.
>
>> 4) *My* game doesn't interfere with *your* game so *how* am i ruining the
>> games of non-cheaters?
>
>> 5) If anyone asks me if i am cheating i'm honest about it. If they prefer i
>> leave then I do so.
>
>> 6) I don't tell you how to play your game...
>> 
>     Well, Chad, I do wish there were more cheaters like you out there
>(if there have to be cheaters at all, that is). While I personally feel
>that cheating detracts from the game it is your decision whether or not
>to do so. As long as your cheating does not in any way affect my
>gameplay then more power to you! Have fun!
[sniped at various locations]

I do agree Gordon that what Chad is doing is perfectly acceptable, noble
even. Given that the normal enjoyment of discovering the all powerful
artifact is gone by cheating, voluntarily playing baby-sit for newbies
is something most players won't do.

The problem, though, is that the people who follow the outlined
philosophy are rare. In other words, Chad is an exception. The majority
of the cheaters don't have so noble playing philosophy. There is
only one 'good' cheater for every 100 bad ones. Given that fact, I'd
rather not allowing cheat of any form at all. The cost is too high.

Later...

On 2 Mar 1997 09:13:54 GMT, nes...@epix.net (Chad Nesbit) wrote:

>I am a cheater with the following philosophy:
>
>1) Not all cheaters are the same, I don't hurt anyone, I don't townkill or 
>player kill whatsoever.
>2) I help out newbies by following them and res-ing them if they get into 
>trouble, Result: Most of them enjoy the game more.
>3) I personally enjoy the game more not having to worry about getting killed 
>by monsters, tkers or pkers.
>4) *My* game doesn't interfere with *your* game so *how* am i ruining the 
>games of non-cheaters? 
>5) If anyone asks me if i am cheating i'm honest about it. If they prefer i 
>leave then I do so.
>6) I don't tell you how to play your game... 
>
>If anyone has a problem with these i feel sorry for them...
>
>
>Ladwick
>
>
>

A rather interesting post.  In my experience on Bnet, I have run into
some relatively harmless cheaters such as you seem to be.  In fact, I
have used hack programs to make a couple of artificially enhanced
characters for myself.  I took them onto bnet just to see what they
could do.  I still have one, and while its not my favourite, I may
venture onto bnet again.  If you see a lvl 47 rogue named Scavenger
with no dots, its likely to be me.

Here's part of my still-developing philosophy about playing her:

1. Other than doing my share of the fighting, I try not to make it
easier for the other people.  There is no question that the very fact
that I am there fighting makes it easier for them, and I figure that's
enough.  What does this entail?

  A. I take my share of the gold and the items we find, even though I
don't need them.

  B. Since Griswold, Adria and Wirt all offer me much better stuff
than they offer lower level characters, I don't buy items for them
even if they have the gold.

  C. I don't give or trade anything.  There are already too many
people running around giving away duped and/or hacked items, weapons,
armor, elixers and gold. 

2.  I use duped weapons and armor, but they're the versions that you
can sometimes find or buy in the game, not the stuff that's
artificially enhanced by the hack programs.  No -250 damage armor or
+250 damage weapons for me.

3.  I personally enjoy the game when I don't have to worry about
TKillers.  I don't like PKillers, but they are part of Blizzard's game
design, so I don't object strenuously either.  What I do object to is
PKillers who pick on much weaker characters.  Autokill was an
abomination.

4. I do personally enjoy the game when I have to worry about monsters.
I had another hacked character who could simply stroll through and
kill Diablo.  It was no challenge whatsoever, and no fun.  I enjoy the
game most when I get into tough fights where I can get killed, where
my potions are gone and my skill will make the difference between
living or dying.  Such moments don't happen with my hacked characters.
I know I'll survive, so while it's still fun, it's not nearly as much
fun, and there's certainly no thrill.  That's why I play my legit
characters more... much more.

5.  I recently started the process of replacing all my hacked and/or
traded armor and weapons with things I find or buy.  This is weakening
my character; eg. the best armor I've found so far is saintly plate to
replace the godly plate of the whale I had before.  But a weaker
character will take at least some skill to play, so it will make her
more fun.

6.  I resurrect people, but only once or maybe twice.  If they count
on being resurrected, they probably won't how learn to play - to hit
and move as a rogue, to use doorways and walls as a warrior, etc.  If
I just let them run in and bash away knowing I'll res them, what's the
difference between that and just giving them super armor?  The results
are the same; they can't die.  Either way, the need to learn how to
play the game is significantly decreased, and because of  that, they
seldom learn to play well.

7.  When I play with newbies, I use a low-level character, level 10 at
most, and usually lower, NEVER my level 30's or higher.  It doesn't
take long to get a new character to maybe level 5, so I tend to hold
one there for when I feel like playing with and helping newbies or
lowbies.  A level 5 is plenty of protection for a level 1 or 2, and a
level 10 is plenty for a 5 or 6, so I see little or no reason to use
my level 30's for that purpose.

8.  I used to tell people my character was hacked if they asked too.
But this is an ambiguous position.  For example, do they have to ask
you specifically " are you a cheat?" or "are you hacked?"  And what
about the people who don't know about cheating programs?  Last night,
I went into a game to shop and met a warrior whose level was in the
upper 20's.  He said it was his first time on Bnet and he got to that
level playing on network games at home.  I believed him because he
only had about 265 hit points.  He happened to ask me how I got to be
so strong, so I told him.  He had never heard about hacking until
then, so he could not possibly have known to ask if I was a cheat.  My
policy was to tell people if any reference to my strength or level
came up, and to leave if anyone objected.  Now, I will declare it when
I enter the game.  The only exception might be when I just enter a
game to shop, and not to play since I won't affect them at all and
I'll be gone in two or three minutes.

There, I've had my somewhat long-winded say.  It's an interesting
topic area, but not as interesting as the game, so I'm off to play.

Richard Aihoshi
Scavenger, Jonric et al on Bnet.