🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>Previously, we discussed education in the newsgroup.  Many of
>us here were in school during the time frame referenced by
>the following articles.
>
>LIFE reviewed the state of the nation's schools in 1958.
>
>It also compares Soviet schools.
>
>https://books.google.com/books?id=PlYEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=life%20breck&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
>part II of the series
>https://books.google.com/books?id=S1YEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=life%20mar%2031%2C%201958&pg=PA93#v=onepage&q&f=false

As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
we keep producing wonders.

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> 
>> Previously, we discussed education in the newsgroup.  Many of
>> us here were in school during the time frame referenced by
>> the following articles.
>> 
>> LIFE reviewed the state of the nation's schools in 1958.
>> 
>> It also compares Soviet schools.
>> 
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=PlYEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=life%20breck&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false
>> 
>> part II of the series
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=S1YEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=life%20mar%2031%2C%201958&pg=PA93#v=onepage&q&f=false
> 
> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
> we keep producing wonders.
> 

There are a lot of good schools, and many bright kids will succeed no
matter what the school is like, but many schools are set up to turn out
failures. Of course home/neighborhood environment also plays a big part,
and I'm not sure what the solution is except to pull the kids out of their
environment.

-- 
Pete

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:

> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
> we keep producing wonders.

You have also produced a third or so of your population, including
many notionally well educated people, that thinks the Bdelygma in Chief
is intelligent, knowledgeable, wise, stable, truthful and capable of
doing the job his office requires.  Sorry state, QED.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2018-07-13, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
>> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
>> we keep producing wonders.
>
> You have also produced a third or so of your population, including
> many notionally well educated people, that thinks the Bdelygma in Chief
> is intelligent, knowledgeable, wise, stable, truthful and capable of
> doing the job his office requires.  Sorry state, QED.
>

But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
US bull wanders around the china-shop.



-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:

> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
> US bull wanders around the china-shop.

The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.

My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.

John Savard

On 2018-07-13, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>
>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>
> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>
> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.


My freedon, as always, depends on myself(`Me Fein') and always will.
Fear of imaginary things does not help.



>
> John Savard


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On 13 Jul 2018 08:06:19 GMT
ma...@mail.com wrote:

> `Me Fein'

	Was once suggested as the name for the Irish internet exchange,
instead we got DINX :(

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 13 Jul 2018 06:55:13 GMT, ma...@mail.com wrote:

>On 2018-07-13, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
>>> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
>>> we keep producing wonders.
>>
>> You have also produced a third or so of your population, including
>> many notionally well educated people, that thinks the Bdelygma in Chief
>> is intelligent, knowledgeable, wise, stable, truthful and capable of
>> doing the job his office requires.  Sorry state, QED.
>>
>
>But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>US bull wanders around the china-shop.

He is being shuttled around England by helicopter today so he doesn't
see the protests.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 08:22:18 -0500
JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He is being shuttled around England by helicopter today so he doesn't
> see the protests.

	He can't not know about the blimp.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 13/07/2018 14:57, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 08:22:18 -0500
> JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> He is being shuttled around England by helicopter today so he doesn't
>> see the protests.
> 
> 	He can't not know about the blimp.
> 

Were I to be he, I'd buy it and fly it from Trump Towers.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 13:57:36 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> 
wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 08:22:18 -0500
> JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> He is being shuttled around England by helicopter today so he doesn't
>> see the protests.
> 
>      He can't not know about the blimp.
> 

Trump Truth is inside his head; he can decide it ain't real if he don't 
like it.

-- 
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 5:58:15 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:

> There are a lot of good schools, and many bright kids will succeed no
> matter what the school is like, but many schools are set up to turn out
> failures. Of course home/neighborhood environment also plays a big part,
> and I'm not sure what the solution is except to pull the kids out of their
> environment.

Years ago, when I attended public schools, there were classes to
teach basic homemaking, such as budgeting, shopping, etc.  For
instance, in math class, we had to analyze the food ads from the
newspaper for best value (lots of long division.)

While public schools did not attempt to impose morality issues,
they did teach us and expect to comply with the basics of good
behavior--not stealing, wait your turn, be neat and orderly,
be respectful, good manners, don't litter, don't run, don't
be noisy, etc.

A lot of what was later called "political correctness" was in
an earlier time just seen as good manners, and expected of 
children in school and adults on the job.

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:21:21 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> 
> > But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
> > US bull wanders around the china-shop.
 
> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
 
> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.

+1

I was talking to a friend about some of the statements of Sen.
Elizabeth Warren, who makes very good sense.  He said, "Oh you
mean Pochohantas".  He did not understand why I didn't find
that funny, indeed, even offensive.  I don't think joking about
potentially devastating impacts to our economy is a good idea,
and I think the ideas of an intelligent Senator ought to have
a hearing, not get mocked.  I don't like someone being duped
by an intentionally distraction of the issues at hand.

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:06:20 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> On 2018-07-13, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> >
> >> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
> >> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
> >
> > The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
> >
> > My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
> 
> 
> My freedon, as always, depends on myself(`Me Fein') and always will.
> Fear of imaginary things does not help.

No.  Your freedom can be taken away by hostile acts of the government.
It can also be lost by hostile acts of private parties while the
government sits aside and does nothing or even encourages it.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 12:25:16 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 5:58:15 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> There are a lot of good schools, and many bright kids will succeed no
>> matter what the school is like, but many schools are set up to turn out
>> failures. Of course home/neighborhood environment also plays a big part,
>> and I'm not sure what the solution is except to pull the kids out of their
>> environment.
>
>Years ago, when I attended public schools, there were classes to
>teach basic homemaking, such as budgeting, shopping, etc.  For
>instance, in math class, we had to analyze the food ads from the
>newspaper for best value (lots of long division.)
>
>While public schools did not attempt to impose morality issues,
>they did teach us and expect to comply with the basics of good
>behavior--not stealing, wait your turn, be neat and orderly,
>be respectful, good manners, don't litter, don't run, don't
>be noisy, etc.
>
>A lot of what was later called "political correctness" was in
>an earlier time just seen as good manners, and expected of 
>children in school and adults on the job.

A number of those films have been digitized and put up on youtube.

We got to watch the hospital equipment used to strecth back out spines
mangled by car wrecks.

We did get taught about good manners and the rest you list above.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>
>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>
>The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>
>My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.

How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
anybody in the US _wants_.
>
>John Savard

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 2:06:20 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:

> My freedon, as always, depends on myself(`Me Fein') and always will.

It is said that one can never enslave a free man, only kill him. However, I used a 
sense of the word "free" in which a man whose choices are those is not free.

John Savard

On 2018-07-14, J  Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>
>>The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>
>>My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>
> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
> anybody in the US _wants_.

I lile the slogan, "Canada: What the US could have been;"



-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

<hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:06:20 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>> On 2018-07-13, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>> 
>>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>> 
>>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>> 
>> 
>> My freedon, as always, depends on myself(`Me Fein') and always will.
>> Fear of imaginary things does not help.
> 
> No.  Your freedom can be taken away by hostile acts of the government.
> It can also be lost by hostile acts of private parties while the
> government sits aside and does nothing or even encourages it.
> 

I worry more about creeping big government, which continues year by year,
than about Trump, who will be gone in 3 (or 7) years.

-- 
Pete

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> 
>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>> 
>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>> 
>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
> 
> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
> anybody in the US _wants_.
>> 

Hockey players.

-- 
Pete

On 2018-07-14, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:06:20 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-13, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>>> 
>>>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>>> 
>>>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My freedon, as always, depends on myself(`Me Fein') and always will.
>>> Fear of imaginary things does not help.
>> 
>> No.  Your freedom can be taken away by hostile acts of the government.
>> It can also be lost by hostile acts of private parties while the
>> government sits aside and does nothing or even encourages it.
>> 
>
> I worry more about creeping big government, which continues year by year,
> than about Trump, who will be gone in 3 (or 7) years.
>

+

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On 2018-07-13, ma...@mail.com <ma...@mail.com> wrote:

> On 2018-07-13, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
>>> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
>>> we keep producing wonders.
>>
>> You have also produced a third or so of your population, including
>> many notionally well educated people, that thinks the Bdelygma in Chief
>> is intelligent, knowledgeable, wise, stable, truthful and capable of
>> doing the job his office requires.  Sorry state, QED.
>
> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
> US bull wanders around the china-shop.

I guess you could call that a wonder - of sorts.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 2018-07-14, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>> 
>>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>> 
>>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>> 
>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>
> Hockey players.

No, there's already a good export process in place for them.
It's our water that they'll be after.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-07-14, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>>> 
>>>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>>> 
>>>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>>> 
>>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>> 
>> Hockey players.
> 
> No, there's already a good export process in place for them.
> It's our water that they'll be after.
> 

BTDT. Back in the 50s Lyndon Larouche proposed the "North American Water
and Power Agency" (NAWAPA) to pump Canadian water south into the Rio Grande
(IIRC) and generate lots of electricity in the bargain.

-- 
Pete

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:27:23 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
> anybody in the US _wants_.

1) Canada has oil.

2) I'm thinking of Russia wanting to take over Canada, so that rebellious elements 
from its colony, the United States, will not have somewhere to run to and hide in.

John Savard

On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 12:42:16 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
 
> I lile the slogan, "Canada: What the US could have been;"

If the last Ice Age hadn't ended (or, technically, if we weren't in an 
interglacial period)...

John Savard

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:45:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:27:23 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>
>1) Canada has oil.

So?

>2) I'm thinking of Russia wanting to take over Canada, so that rebellious elements 
>from its colony, the United States, will not have somewhere to run to and hide in.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
either.

On 14 Jul 2018 17:45:00 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2018-07-13, ma...@mail.com <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-07-13, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> As long as there are politicians in the US there will be loud
>>>> lamenting of the sorry state of American education.  And yet somehow
>>>> we keep producing wonders.
>>>
>>> You have also produced a third or so of your population, including
>>> many notionally well educated people, that thinks the Bdelygma in Chief
>>> is intelligent, knowledgeable, wise, stable, truthful and capable of
>>> doing the job his office requires.  Sorry state, QED.
>>
>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>
>I guess you could call that a wonder - of sorts.

Note that in the meantime, two American companies have come up with
the first practical electric car (as in one that works so well and is
so popular that the established carmakers are rushing to produce
competing models) and the first truly reusable space booster.  All
using products of our "failed" education system.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 01:01:35 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Note that in the meantime, two American companies have come up with
> the first practical electric car (as in one that works so well and is
> so popular that the established carmakers are rushing to produce
> competing models) and the first truly reusable space booster.  All
> using products of our "failed" education system.

	The measure of the quality of an educational system isn't the peak,
it is the average and the bottom. Some of the determined and brilliant will
always succeed.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-07-14, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2018-07-14, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:55:14 AM UTC-6, ma...@mail.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> But he is FUN!... listening to the continuing crash of china, as the
>>>>>> US bull wanders around the china-shop.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The joke wears thin if one has to pay for the porcelain.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My freedom, and yours, is what is at stake.
>>>> 
>>>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>>>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>>>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>>> 
>>> Hockey players.
>> 
>> No, there's already a good export process in place for them.
>> It's our water that they'll be after.
>> 
>
> BTDT. Back in the 50s Lyndon Larouche proposed the "North American Water
> and Power Agency" (NAWAPA) to pump Canadian water south into the Rio Grande
> (IIRC) and generate lots of electricity in the bargain.
>

The late Soviet Union was dealing with those sort of problems years ago.
There was, and is, a problem with the Caspian Sea, and one solution
was to rurn some of Siberia's North-flowing rivers to flow south and
into The Caspian. The amount of power to remove that amount of earth was
to be supplied by atomic bombs. What wcould go wrong?.. Luckily, the 
project was scapped. (I believe there is a proposal to bring water
from the Red Sea at Aquaba to replenish the Dead  Sea.)


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On 2018-07-15, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:27:23 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>
> 1) Canada has oil.
>
> 2) I'm thinking of Russia wanting to take over Canada, so that rebellious elements 
> from its colony, the United States, will not have somewhere to run to and hide in.
>
> John Savard

The US has already invaded Canada, in 1812, the Canadians whupped them.
Reading of people nowadays driving from Toronto down, I think that
the Canadians still would object.


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On Saturday, July 14, 2018 at 10:57:12 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
> either.

People like Putin will never be satisfied until they control every scrap of land on the Earth so that there is no place where free men live who are nut under his sway.

Thus, it would not matter even were Canada even more insignificant than Luxembourg.

John Savard

On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:45:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:27:23 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>>
>>1) Canada has oil.
>
>So?
>
>>2) I'm thinking of Russia wanting to take over Canada, so that rebellious elements 
>>from its colony, the United States, will not have somewhere to run to and hide in.
>
>I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>either.

Ice free ports ?

On 15 Jul 2018 15:01:59 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>On 2018-07-15, JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>><jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:45:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 9:27:23 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How the fuck is YOUR freedom at stake?  I hate to break it you but the
>>>>> US is not going to invade Canada, there isn't anything there that
>>>>> anybody in the US _wants_.
>>>>
>>>>1) Canada has oil.
>>>
>>>So?
>>>
>>>>2) I'm thinking of Russia wanting to take over Canada, so that rebellious elements 
>>>>from its colony, the United States, will not have somewhere to run to and hide in.
>>>
>>>I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>either.
>>
>> Ice free ports ?
>
>Is there anywhere that executes trolls?

I'm not a troll, stoooop that.

Canada's ports certainly have ice less of the year than Murmansk. Its
why Russia wants to keep their Black Sea ports.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 01:01:35 -0400
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Note that in the meantime, two American companies have come up with
>> the first practical electric car (as in one that works so well and is
>> so popular that the established carmakers are rushing to produce
>> competing models) and the first truly reusable space booster.  All
>> using products of our "failed" education system.
> 
> The measure of the quality of an educational system isn't the peak,
> it is the average and the bottom. Some of the determined and brilliant will
> always succeed.

Just so.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 3:00:06 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> 	The measure of the quality of an educational system isn't the peak,
> it is the average and the bottom. Some of the determined and brilliant will
> always succeed.

Good point.

In earlier years, educators didn't really care much about the bottom.
They sought to teach them basic literacy, some responsibility, and
tradecraft, but they expected them to drop out in high school.

One bit challenge in education, then and now, is the fact that
"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".
Many schools over the years offered pretty good academic, vo-tech,
and commercial programs, and students who took them were well
prepared upon graduation.  But the students had to be motivated
and work at them.

In 1948 LIFE studied the Allentown, PA, school system, which
was considered good.
https://books.google.com/books?id=DEYEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=life%20may%2010%2C%201948&pg=PA117#v=onepage&q&f=false

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:24:21 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 3:00:06 AM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> 	The measure of the quality of an educational system isn't the peak,
>> it is the average and the bottom. Some of the determined and brilliant will
>> always succeed.
>
>Good point.
>
>In earlier years, educators didn't really care much about the bottom.
>They sought to teach them basic literacy, some responsibility, and
>tradecraft, but they expected them to drop out in high school.
>
>One bit challenge in education, then and now, is the fact that
>"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".
>Many schools over the years offered pretty good academic, vo-tech,
>and commercial programs, and students who took them were well
>prepared upon graduation.  But the students had to be motivated
>and work at them.

And now we disdain vo-tech as "the dummy track" and don't have
"commercial" programs at all in most schools.
>
>In 1948 LIFE studied the Allentown, PA, school system, which
>was considered good.
>https://books.google.com/books?id=DEYEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=life%20may%2010%2C%201948&pg=PA117#v=onepage&q&f=false

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
> >either.

> Ice free ports ?

Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia, and even 
if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious reasons Cuba would be 
just as good for them.

Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is 
big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure 
within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather 
than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.

John Savard

On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> And now we disdain vo-tech as "the dummy track" and don't have
> "commercial" programs at all in most schools.

What's the point of teaching kids to do jobs that either are done in China or are 
done by computers? The educational system can't take the place of the economy.

John Savard

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
> >either.

> Ice free ports ?

A Canadian mine is the world's largest producer of cesium... *and* it also 
produces a goodly amount of -- *tantalum*.

So you don't have to go to Africa for it.

Sorry, I don't know of any Vibranium mines in Canada.

John Savard

On 2018-07-17, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 8:29:12 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> And now we disdain vo-tech as "the dummy track" and don't have
>> "commercial" programs at all in most schools.
>
> What's the point of teaching kids to do jobs that either are done in China or are 
> done by computers? The educational system can't take the place of the economy.
>
> John Savard

China shows signs of `levelling out', i.e. the great mass of
'lumpenproletariat(sp?' is disappearing with birth-control.

I am unimpressed with computers in real life. a local expert in AI was 
interviewed a couple of weeks ago on radio. He pointed out that if
the is a water leak in your house, you will call a plumber, and that job
can not be taken by AI.

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food

On 2018-07-17, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>> either.
>
>> Ice free ports ?
>
> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia,
> and even if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious
> reasons Cuba would be just as good for them.

s/climactic/climatic/

We Canadians are too laid back to be in a continuous state of climax.

> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is 
> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure 
> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather 
> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.

If global warming continues, the Northwest Passage will be open year round.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 7/16/2018 10:32 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>> either.
> 
>> Ice free ports ?
> 
> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia, and even
> if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious reasons Cuba would be
> just as good for them.
> 
> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is
> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure
> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather
> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
> 
Russia is big enough so they've got plenty of places to put factories 
and infrastructure (they have plenty of factories that were abandoned 
with the fall of the USSR). They have no reason to want to take over 
Canada.

The only country that's a threat to Canada is the United States. And 
US pressure won't be military, it'll be economic.

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-07-17, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> 
>> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>> either.
>> 
>>> Ice free ports ?
>> 
>> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia,
>> and even if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious
>> reasons Cuba would be just as good for them.
> 
> s/climactic/climatic/
> 
> We Canadians are too laid back to be in a continuous state of climax.
> 
>> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is 
>> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure 
>> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather 
>> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
> 
> If global warming continues, the Northwest Passage will be open year round.
> 

It's getting close, shippers are salivating at the thought of a shortcut
route from the US east coast to Asia. This is one of the benefits of global
warming that never gets mentioned, since everyone knows that global warming
is a "bad thing."

-- 
Pete

On 2018-07-17, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 7/16/2018 10:32 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>> either.
>> 
>>> Ice free ports ?
>> 
>> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia, and even
>> if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious reasons Cuba would be
>> just as good for them.
>> 
>> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is
>> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure
>> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather
>> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
>> 
> Russia is big enough so they've got plenty of places to put factories 
> and infrastructure (they have plenty of factories that were abandoned 
> with the fall of the USSR). They have no reason to want to take over 
> Canada.
>
> The only country that's a threat to Canada is the United States. And 
> US pressure won't be military, it'll be economic.

There is a German company that has a former kolkhoz rented near Kalach, where one
of the decisive battles of WWII was, they had a sorta prospectus on the Internet.
Immpressive. Show how `jaw, jaw' is better than `war, war'.


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On 2018-07-17, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 7/16/2018 10:32 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>> either.
>> 
>>> Ice free ports ?
>> 
>> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia, and even
>> if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious reasons Cuba would be
>> just as good for them.
>> 
>> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is
>> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure
>> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather
>> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
>> 
> Russia is big enough so they've got plenty of places to put factories 
> and infrastructure (they have plenty of factories that were abandoned 
> with the fall of the USSR). They have no reason to want to take over 
> Canada.
>
> The only country that's a threat to Canada is the United States. And 
> US pressure won't be military, it'll be economic.

The US's biggest threat to the world is if it goes bankrupt, with the vast amount
of assets in the US being owned  by foreigners.

Go back in history, to when the byzantines exhausted their assets in trying
to recreate the Roman Empire, then just collapsed when the Arabs arrived. The Sassanians too.



-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 12:20:04 PM UTC-6, Dave Garland wrote:

> Russia is big enough so they've got plenty of places to put factories 
> and infrastructure (they have plenty of factories that were abandoned 
> with the fall of the USSR). They have no reason to want to take over 
> Canada.

But those factories don't have access to warm-water ports. And they *still 
wouldn't* have access to warm-water ports in Canada even if Russia conquered 
Canada, because there is no land connection between Russia and Canada.

So this is what Russia would have to do to benefit from Canada's ports. If 
they're any better than Russia's.

But if they're planning to threaten the United States, ports aren't really 
needed.

Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? Now they'd have missiles lined up all along 
the 49th Parallel!

John Savard

On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:04:22 -0400, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2018-07-17, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>>> either.
>>> 
>>>> Ice free ports ?
>>> 
>>> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia,
>>> and even if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious
>>> reasons Cuba would be just as good for them.
>> 
>> s/climactic/climatic/
>> 
>> We Canadians are too laid back to be in a continuous state of climax.
>> 
>>> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is 
>>> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure 
>>> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather 
>>> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
>> 
>> If global warming continues, the Northwest Passage will be open year round.
>
>It's getting close, shippers are salivating at the thought of a shortcut
>route from the US east coast to Asia. This is one of the benefits of global
>warming that never gets mentioned, since everyone knows that global warming
>is a "bad thing."

It's certainly a bad thing for wildlife like polar bears which are dependent on
a colder climate for habitat and food sources.  It is making it more difficult
to build structures in Northern regions because the permafrost is deeper and
so it requires bigger and deeper foundations, while existing buildings are at
risk of collapsing.  In the Western United States, wildfire "season" is becoming
a year-round phenomena, and the shorter, warmer winters no longer have the same
retardant effect on insect populations -- pine borer beetle infestations are
threatening forests in Colorado and elsewhere.  Western states that rely on
winter snow pack as a natural reservoir for their water supplies are facing
increasing difficulties as more winter rain and less snow diminishes that
resource. Coastal cities like Norfolk, Virginia and Miami, Florida now
experience severe street flooding nearly every time it rains.  As global warming
continues, formerly temperate regions will become increasingly arid, and
hundreds of millions of people who live in coastal communities will be driven
out by sea level rise.  Some island nations will become completely submerged.

But hey, Walmart can ship its cheap goods from China directly to the East Coast
more easily, so that makes up for it, right?

Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:04:22 -0400, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2018-07-17, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 9:01:06 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:57:11 -0400, J. Clarke
>>>>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I hate to break it to you, but you don't have anything Russia wants
>>>>>> either.
>>>> 
>>>>> Ice free ports ?
>>>> 
>>>> Iran has those. Canada is in a similar climactic situation to Russia,
>>>> and even if we do have some year-round ice-free ports, for obvious
>>>> reasons Cuba would be just as good for them.
>>> 
>>> s/climactic/climatic/
>>> 
>>> We Canadians are too laid back to be in a continuous state of climax.
>>> 
>>>> Still, although there is no direct *land* connection to the Rodina, Canada is 
>>>> big enough that I guess Russia could put their factories and infrastructure 
>>>> within it, so that they could project their naval power _from_ Canada rather 
>>>> than from Russia when its ports are frozen in.
>>> 
>>> If global warming continues, the Northwest Passage will be open year round.
>> 
>> It's getting close, shippers are salivating at the thought of a shortcut
>> route from the US east coast to Asia. This is one of the benefits of global
>> warming that never gets mentioned, since everyone knows that global warming
>> is a "bad thing."
> 
> It's certainly a bad thing for wildlife like polar bears which are dependent on
> a colder climate for habitat and food sources.  It is making it more difficult
> to build structures in Northern regions because the permafrost is deeper and
> so it requires bigger and deeper foundations, while existing buildings are at
> risk of collapsing.  In the Western United States, wildfire "season" is becoming
> a year-round phenomena, and the shorter, warmer winters no longer have the same
> retardant effect on insect populations -- pine borer beetle infestations are
> threatening forests in Colorado and elsewhere.  Western states that rely on
> winter snow pack as a natural reservoir for their water supplies are facing
> increasing difficulties as more winter rain and less snow diminishes that
> resource. Coastal cities like Norfolk, Virginia and Miami, Florida now
> experience severe street flooding nearly every time it rains.  As global warming
> continues, formerly temperate regions will become increasingly arid, and
> hundreds of millions of people who live in coastal communities will be driven
> out by sea level rise.  Some island nations will become completely submerged.
> 
> But hey, Walmart can ship its cheap goods from China directly to the East Coast
> more easily, so that makes up for it, right?
> 
> 

Don't forget all the oil under the Arctic Ocean.

-- 
Pete

Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:

>> But hey, Walmart can ship its cheap goods from China directly to the East Coast
>> more easily, so that makes up for it, right?
>> 
>> 
>
>Don't forget all the oil under the Arctic Ocean.

It would be better for the planet if we did.  Forget it, that is.