🚀 go-pugleaf

On 27 Jun 2018 18:22:31 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-06-27, Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> wrote:
> 
> [35 lines snipped]
> 
> > anticipating the future was exciting, living it is less so, even if we 
> > have so much more gadgetry than anyone imagined.
> 
> And it is being used in ways that would have made Big Brother wet himself
> with pleasure.

	The bit that would delight Big Brother is the way that so many are
choosing to reveal all.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-06-27, Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> wrote:

> When they had the SF Worldcon here in 2009, I wrote somewehre about it. 
> It included something like "the future is better than anticipated, but
> not nearly as good".  I should look up the exact quote.  IN some ways 
> anticipating the future was exciting, living it is less so, even if we 
> have so much more gadgetry than anyone imagined.

We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
Where's my jet pack?

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
 
> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
> Where's my jet pack?
> 
Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)

On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>  
>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>> Where's my jet pack?
> 
> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)

Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
the latest update.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>  
>>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>>> Where's my jet pack?
>> 
>> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
> 
> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
> the latest update.


Hee hee hee...giggle.  Just so.

And as all that stuff is proliferating, the analog stuff is quietly
going away.  I need some parts for my rototiller engine.  It's only 46
years old but the company that made the engine, a major economic
pillar of its community in its day, is so long out of business that
the factory building has been made into a community historic site. And
the tiller company has been sold, borged, merged and sold again, has
no interest in supporting old products.

It's getting to be commonplace that when I go to the hardware store,
nobody under 50 has even heard of the thing I want to buy.  The old
guys may remember seeing the product but not for mumble years.
Waterglass?  Cheap fireproof stickum handy if you do stuff with open
flames.  Never heard of it.  Is there an app for that? :-\


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2018-06-28, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> wrote:
>>
> I guess I should get a cell phone pretty soon.  Old guy, y'know, can
> no longer be sure of walking home from anywhere in any weather and all
> the pay phones are gone.  Digital house?  Um, will it chuck another
> bolt of wood into the kitchen range or replace the leathers in my hand
> pump when needed?  My electric toaster is 115 years old, gets used
> daily in summer.  Don't think I need a digital one.
>
>

Further report on the Gemini, like most smartish phones it needs 
to be recharged every day. The JCB phone that I have has never run out
of charge (I charge it on Fridays), will only store a few messages (!)
and does not trouble me.

Some years ago the people I am associated with sold a Land Rover
Defender. Checking now, what people are looking for restored ones is
about 50% more than that one cost new. At the moment a small tractor (MF135)
will, restored, will cost you 5 times what they cost new in 1960



-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Will Rant for Food

On Wed, 28 Jun 2018, Mike Spencer wrote:

>
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>>>> Where's my jet pack?
>>>
>>> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
>>
>> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
>> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
>> the latest update.
>
>
> Hee hee hee...giggle.  Just so.
>
> And as all that stuff is proliferating, the analog stuff is quietly
> going away.  I need some parts for my rototiller engine.  It's only 46
> years old but the company that made the engine, a major economic
> pillar of its community in its day, is so long out of business that
> the factory building has been made into a community historic site. And
> the tiller company has been sold, borged, merged and sold again, has
> no interest in supporting old products.
>
> It's getting to be commonplace that when I go to the hardware store,
> nobody under 50 has even heard of the thing I want to buy.  The old
> guys may remember seeing the product but not for mumble years.
> Waterglass?  Cheap fireproof stickum handy if you do stuff with open
> flames.  Never heard of it.  Is there an app for that? :-\
>
There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still run 
by the original owner, or a descendant.  There was no liability to keeping 
the old stuff around, so you could go there, someone would know about the 
old stuff, and it was still around.

But a lot of those places are now closed, the owner dying or the rent 
getting too high, and no small  stores taking over the territory, just 
those big box stores.  But also there was that US ruling where old stock 
couldn't be written off, so keeping the old stuff wasn't just a matter of 
having a big enough basement.

All the local electronic parts stores that I went to as a kid starting in 
1971 are gone.  They had old stuff because they'd been around that long. 
But the area where a bunch of them were has long been redeveloped, sort of 
the same situation as "Radio Row" in New York City.  But also changing 
needs made those old stores less viable, fewer people wanting tube era 
parts, while the stores never fully adapted to solid state parts.

There is one exception, though when I went there a few years ago, it had 
totally been remade and while maybe the parts are behind the counter, on 
view was a lot of consumer equipment and accessories.  It used to be an 
"electronic supermarket", grab a basket at the door and go down the rows 
taking the parts from the bins as you needed.  A lot of surplus too, not 
military but consumer.

There used to be a guy who called himself "Mr. Fixit" and they dealt with 
the repair of old stuff (oddly, not just appliances and electronics but 
furniture and other things), but even they moved out of that field.  For a 
while there were places that stayed in their field, but it was like a 
consolitation, you'd have to go across town to get to them and everyone 
knew about them, but even those remaining places are mostly faded.

Every so often I read about people finding such stores, they'd closed down 
but the owner had kept things intact, paying the rent  (or maybe owning) 
the property) until he dies and it's a goldmine of old stuff.  So in the 
antique radio hobby, people find places like that and come home loaded 
when the stuff is finally cleared out.  Or someoen finds a stock of old 
toys because they were left in the back of some old store now being 
cleared out.

   Michael

On 28/06/2018 16:15, Michael Black wrote:
>>
> There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still 
> run by the original owner, or a descendant

Here in Chippenham, Wilts, England we've only recently lost
our "Four Candles" hardware shop where we could buy loose
nails by the pound.

I'd been a customer of Denton's for 40 years, and the shocking
thing is that Homebase opening a hundred yards away probably
put them out of business, only for Homebase to be shutting down now.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 11:15:49 -0400, Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Jun 2018, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>>>>> Where's my jet pack?
>>>>
>>>> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
>>>
>>> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
>>> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
>>> the latest update.
>>
>>
>> Hee hee hee...giggle.  Just so.
>>
>> And as all that stuff is proliferating, the analog stuff is quietly
>> going away.  I need some parts for my rototiller engine.  It's only 46
>> years old but the company that made the engine, a major economic
>> pillar of its community in its day, is so long out of business that
>> the factory building has been made into a community historic site. And
>> the tiller company has been sold, borged, merged and sold again, has
>> no interest in supporting old products.
>>
>> It's getting to be commonplace that when I go to the hardware store,
>> nobody under 50 has even heard of the thing I want to buy.  The old
>> guys may remember seeing the product but not for mumble years.
>> Waterglass?  Cheap fireproof stickum handy if you do stuff with open
>> flames.  Never heard of it.  Is there an app for that? :-\
>>
>There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still run 
>by the original owner, or a descendant.  There was no liability to keeping 
>the old stuff around, so you could go there, someone would know about the 
>old stuff, and it was still around.
>
>But a lot of those places are now closed, the owner dying or the rent 
>getting too high, and no small  stores taking over the territory, just 
>those big box stores.  But also there was that US ruling where old stock 
>couldn't be written off, so keeping the old stuff wasn't just a matter of 
>having a big enough basement.
>
>All the local electronic parts stores that I went to as a kid starting in 
>1971 are gone.  They had old stuff because they'd been around that long. 
>But the area where a bunch of them were has long been redeveloped, sort of 
>the same situation as "Radio Row" in New York City.  But also changing 
>needs made those old stores less viable, fewer people wanting tube era 
>parts, while the stores never fully adapted to solid state parts.
>
>There is one exception, though when I went there a few years ago, it had 
>totally been remade and while maybe the parts are behind the counter, on 
>view was a lot of consumer equipment and accessories.  It used to be an 
>"electronic supermarket", grab a basket at the door and go down the rows 
>taking the parts from the bins as you needed.  A lot of surplus too, not 
>military but consumer.
>
>There used to be a guy who called himself "Mr. Fixit" and they dealt with 
>the repair of old stuff (oddly, not just appliances and electronics but 
>furniture and other things), but even they moved out of that field.  For a 
>while there were places that stayed in their field, but it was like a 
>consolitation, you'd have to go across town to get to them and everyone 
>knew about them, but even those remaining places are mostly faded.
>
>Every so often I read about people finding such stores, they'd closed down 
>but the owner had kept things intact, paying the rent  (or maybe owning) 
>the property) until he dies and it's a goldmine of old stuff.  So in the 
>antique radio hobby, people find places like that and come home loaded 
>when the stuff is finally cleared out.  Or someoen finds a stock of old 
>toys because they were left in the back of some old store now being 
>cleared out.
>
>   Michael

American Pickers on History finds these, or gets phone calls, from
time to time. Grand pa, or great grand pa, died and now there is all
this old stock, still in the original boxes.

On 2018-06-28, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> But all the new gadgets?  Most of them leave me cold. After every
> browser upgrade (or Emacs upgrade, for that matter) I spend a lot of
> time figuring out how to disable all the new features.

Or downgrade back to something that works.  Stan Kelly-Bootle coined
the term "sidegrade" for these not-really-upgrades.

> I was getting pretty good with a 35mm SLR but now I'm reduced to the
> equivalent of ny 1955 Brownie Hawkeye or else a pricey camera that
> takes 10 minutes and good eyesight just to set up all the options
> for a shot.

I took some pretty decent underwater photos with my Nikonos V.
Then I tried a little digital camera and found I had no more TTL
metering, a crappy strobe that scared fish away with its preflashes,
and an autofocus that insisted on focusing on what it wanted, rather
than what I wanted.  And that's when I retired from underwater photography.

> I guess I should get a cell phone pretty soon.  Old guy, y'know, can
> no longer be sure of walking home from anywhere in any weather and all
> the pay phones are gone.

Flip phones are still available.  Keep your eyes open.
You don't need to get an electronic ankle bracelet.

> Digital house?  Um, will it chuck another bolt of wood into the kitchen
> range or replace the leathers in my hand pump when needed?

No, but the TV will report to all and sundry just what you're watching
and when you watch it.  And the fridge will do the same for your food.
Big Brother, thy name is Google.

> My electric toaster is 115 years old, gets used
> daily in summer.  Don't think I need a digital one.

Hear, hear.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 2018-06-28, Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 28/06/2018 16:15, Michael Black wrote:
>
>> There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still 
>> run by the original owner, or a descendant
>
> Here in Chippenham, Wilts, England we've only recently lost
> our "Four Candles" hardware shop where we could buy loose
> nails by the pound.
>
> I'd been a customer of Denton's for 40 years, and the shocking
> thing is that Homebase opening a hundred yards away probably
> put them out of business, only for Homebase to be shutting down now.

"Our work here is done."

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>On 2018-06-28, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> But all the new gadgets?  Most of them leave me cold. After every
>> browser upgrade (or Emacs upgrade, for that matter) I spend a lot of
>> time figuring out how to disable all the new features.
>
>Or downgrade back to something that works.  Stan Kelly-Bootle coined
>the term "sidegrade" for these not-really-upgrades.
>
>> I was getting pretty good with a 35mm SLR but now I'm reduced to the
>> equivalent of ny 1955 Brownie Hawkeye or else a pricey camera that
>> takes 10 minutes and good eyesight just to set up all the options
>> for a shot.
>
>I took some pretty decent underwater photos with my Nikonos V.
>Then I tried a little digital camera and found I had no more TTL
>metering, a crappy strobe that scared fish away with its preflashes,
>and an autofocus that insisted on focusing on what it wanted, rather
>than what I wanted.  And that's when I retired from underwater photography.
>
>> I guess I should get a cell phone pretty soon.  Old guy, y'know, can
>> no longer be sure of walking home from anywhere in any weather and all
>> the pay phones are gone.
>
>Flip phones are still available.  Keep your eyes open.

For that matter, so are cheap unlocked androids.  And you can use them as
just phones (disable data, never connect to wifi).

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 8:31:33 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
> > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> >  
> >> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
> >> Where's my jet pack?
> > 
> > Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
> 
> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
> the latest update.

"Beep beep, beep beep, his car went beep beep beep".

On 2018-06-28, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 8:31:33 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>  
>>>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>>>> Where's my jet pack?
>>> 
>>> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
>> 
>> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
>> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
>> the latest update.
>
> "Beep beep, beep beep, his car went beep beep beep".

*applause*

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
>>> 
>>> When they had the SF Worldcon here in 2009, I wrote somewehre about
>>> it.  It included something like "the future is better than
>>> anticipated, but not nearly as good".  I should look up the exact
>>> quote.  IN some ways anticipating the future was exciting, living
>>> it is less so, even if we have so much more gadgetry than anyone
>>> imagined.
> 
> New Year's day, 1949.  Did Dick have his radio watch by then?
> 
>     http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/temp/tracy.jpg
>  
>> When you imagine it you swoon over all the great stuff the future
>> will bring, but tend to ignore the problems. Few imagining todays
>> "social media" probably considered the privacy problems ant the
>> proliferation of advertising.
> 
> Gee, I dunno.  Swoon?  I got a computer as soon as I could afford one,
> actually by trading fancy metalwork for an obsolete one because fancy
> metalwork isn't, in my neck of the woods, a way to get heaps of cash.
> Oh, and a modem pretty early on, too.  And Wikipedia is just great for
> subjects that nobody's having bunfight or in a personal snit over.
> 
> But all the new gadgets?  Most of them leave me cold. After every
> browser upgrade (or Emacs upgrade, for that matter) I spend a lot of
> time figuring out how to disable all the new features.  I was getting
> pretty good with a 35mm SLR but now I'm reduced to the equivalent of
> ny 1955 Brownie Hawkeye or else a pricey camera that takes 10 minutes
> and good eyesight just to set up all the options for a shot.

Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
possibility no one will want it. I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
dead-tree pictures are in the past now.

I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about the
same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics.

-- 
Pete

JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 11:15:49 -0400, Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2018, Mike Spencer wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On 2018-06-27, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 27 Jun 2018 21:11:20 GMT
>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We have lots of gadgets, just not enough of the right ones.
>>>>>> Where's my jet pack?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here's your bicycle with electronic gear shifting.  :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Help!  I'm stuck at an intersection and I can't get it out of
>>>> 10th gear until it manages to find a wifi hotspot and download
>>>> the latest update.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hee hee hee...giggle.  Just so.
>>> 
>>> And as all that stuff is proliferating, the analog stuff is quietly
>>> going away.  I need some parts for my rototiller engine.  It's only 46
>>> years old but the company that made the engine, a major economic
>>> pillar of its community in its day, is so long out of business that
>>> the factory building has been made into a community historic site. And
>>> the tiller company has been sold, borged, merged and sold again, has
>>> no interest in supporting old products.
>>> 
>>> It's getting to be commonplace that when I go to the hardware store,
>>> nobody under 50 has even heard of the thing I want to buy.  The old
>>> guys may remember seeing the product but not for mumble years.
>>> Waterglass?  Cheap fireproof stickum handy if you do stuff with open
>>> flames.  Never heard of it.  Is there an app for that? :-\
>>> 
>> There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still run 
>> by the original owner, or a descendant.  There was no liability to keeping 
>> the old stuff around, so you could go there, someone would know about the 
>> old stuff, and it was still around.
>> 
>> But a lot of those places are now closed, the owner dying or the rent 
>> getting too high, and no small  stores taking over the territory, just 
>> those big box stores.  But also there was that US ruling where old stock 
>> couldn't be written off, so keeping the old stuff wasn't just a matter of 
>> having a big enough basement.
>> 
>> All the local electronic parts stores that I went to as a kid starting in 
>> 1971 are gone.  They had old stuff because they'd been around that long. 
>> But the area where a bunch of them were has long been redeveloped, sort of 
>> the same situation as "Radio Row" in New York City.  But also changing 
>> needs made those old stores less viable, fewer people wanting tube era 
>> parts, while the stores never fully adapted to solid state parts.
>> 
>> There is one exception, though when I went there a few years ago, it had 
>> totally been remade and while maybe the parts are behind the counter, on 
>> view was a lot of consumer equipment and accessories.  It used to be an 
>> "electronic supermarket", grab a basket at the door and go down the rows 
>> taking the parts from the bins as you needed.  A lot of surplus too, not 
>> military but consumer.
>> 
>> There used to be a guy who called himself "Mr. Fixit" and they dealt with 
>> the repair of old stuff (oddly, not just appliances and electronics but 
>> furniture and other things), but even they moved out of that field.  For a 
>> while there were places that stayed in their field, but it was like a 
>> consolitation, you'd have to go across town to get to them and everyone 
>> knew about them, but even those remaining places are mostly faded.
>> 
>> Every so often I read about people finding such stores, they'd closed down 
>> but the owner had kept things intact, paying the rent  (or maybe owning) 
>> the property) until he dies and it's a goldmine of old stuff.  So in the 
>> antique radio hobby, people find places like that and come home loaded 
>> when the stuff is finally cleared out.  Or someoen finds a stock of old 
>> toys because they were left in the back of some old store now being 
>> cleared out.
>> 
>> Michael
> 
> American Pickers on History finds these, or gets phone calls, from
> time to time. Grand pa, or great grand pa, died and now there is all
> this old stock, still in the original boxes.
> 

However, Shark Tank in Computerworld had a bit about a widow wanting to
sell some computers her husband had bought several years ago and never took
out of the boxes. She couldn't believe they were only scrap now.

-- 
Pete

On 29/06/2018 11:19, Peter Flass wrote:
> 
> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
> possibility no one will want it.

BTDTGTTS

2 OM10 bodies, complete set of lenses and flash unit.

Estimated value now, from other ebay adverts?

About £30  :-(

What could be useful is a digital back to replace the
35mm film in old cameras!

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:19:46 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:

> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
> possibility no one will want it. I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
> pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
> dead-tree pictures are in the past now.
> 
> I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about the
> same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics.

I gave up film when Kodak stopped developing it.  I was finding
the cost of buying film going up, plus harder to find the type
I wanted.  I got a digital SLR.

Admittedly, I miss my film camera, though generally, the digital
can do more (like easily adapt to different light sources, motor
drive, good auto focus/auto exposure, time/date stamp, and instant
view.)  

I think film handled high contrast situations better than digital.

A friend offered me his old Nikon F, a real classic, but I realized
I'd have no use for it and it would just gather dust, so I declined.

Note--last time I checked, the chain drugstore still sold Tri-X,
even though Kodak no longer makes processing chemical or print paper.

Kodak also has a Kodachrome magazine:
https://www.kodak.com/US/en/kodachrome/default.htm

However, I tried finding still film on their website but couldn't.

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:19:46 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
>> possibility no one will want it. I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
>> pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
>> dead-tree pictures are in the past now.
>> 
>> I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about the
>> same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics.
>
>I gave up film when Kodak stopped developing it.  I was finding
>the cost of buying film going up, plus harder to find the type
>I wanted.  I got a digital SLR.
>
>Admittedly, I miss my film camera, though generally, the digital
>can do more (like easily adapt to different light sources, motor
>drive, good auto focus/auto exposure, time/date stamp, and instant
>view.)  
>
>I think film handled high contrast situations better than digital.
>
>A friend offered me his old Nikon F, a real classic, but I realized
>I'd have no use for it and it would just gather dust, so I declined.
>
>Note--last time I checked, the chain drugstore still sold Tri-X,
>even though Kodak no longer makes processing chemical or print paper.
>
>Kodak also has a Kodachrome magazine:
>https://www.kodak.com/US/en/kodachrome/default.htm
>
>However, I tried finding still film on their website but couldn't.
>

I've got about 8 unexposed rolls of Kodak ASA100 sitting in the fridge that I
don't know what to do with.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:19:46 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
>> possibility no one will want it. I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
>> pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
>> dead-tree pictures are in the past now.
>>
>> I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about the
>> same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics.
>
> I gave up film when Kodak stopped developing it.  I was finding
> the cost of buying film going up, plus harder to find the type
> I wanted.  I got a digital SLR.
>
> Admittedly, I miss my film camera, though generally, the digital
> can do more (like easily adapt to different light sources, motor
> drive, good auto focus/auto exposure, time/date stamp, and instant
> view.)
>
> I think film handled high contrast situations better than digital.
>
> A friend offered me his old Nikon F, a real classic, but I realized
> I'd have no use for it and it would just gather dust, so I declined.
>
It's like "antique computers", now you can grab all kinds of SLRs with 
lenses for a pittance, but there's a lot less reason to use them.

I've been tempted, but then I think about the cost of film and developing, 
and I remember why I mostly stopped taking pictures before I got a digital 
camera.

What I find interesting is that so long as you don't need a high megapixel 
count, there are lots of interesting digital cameras around.  I got a 
Canon three years ago for $20, not sure what it was at the time except it 
had 12x or 20x zoom.  I thought it might be a DSLR, but it wasn't, but it 
was an expensive model at the time, so probably the optics are better than 
average.  One can screw on an additional lense, though I suspect those 
would be expensive due to limited supply.

I have an earlier Canon, I paid three dollars for it, and the specs are 
nothing great, but it was aimed at a more professional market than 
consumers, so it's better than average.

People just don't want them because they are now "old" nad aren't 20MPs.

Two years ago I did see an early Sony digital camera, one that saved to a 
floppy disc, I was tempted but wasn't sure of the price, me not willing to 
spend a lot on a camera I wasn't intending to actually use. I already have 
an early Apple digital camera, no plug in memory, no display of what the 
camera sees, and the pixel count really low, though that's a plus since 
the memory is relatively small.  YOu need a serial port to get those 
pictures off the camera. Not useful at all now, but I paid a few dollars 
so it's worth having for the novelty.

   Michael

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2018-06-28, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
>> But all the new gadgets?  Most of them leave me cold. After every
>> browser upgrade (or Emacs upgrade, for that matter) I spend a lot of
>> time figuring out how to disable all the new features.
> 
> Or downgrade back to something that works.  Stan Kelly-Bootle coined
> the term "sidegrade" for these not-really-upgrades.

Yeah.  I'm running a risably old Emacs and even older Linux.  Soon be
forced to update kernal/system, driven by ubiquitousness of HTTPS and
latest TLS crypto. Old libc doesn't support the browsers new enough to
do the crypto.  Hacking kernel code is above my job grade.

>> I was getting pretty good with a 35mm SLR but now I'm reduced to the
>> equivalent of ny 1955 Brownie Hawkeye or else a pricey camera that
>> takes 10 minutes and good eyesight just to set up all the options
>> for a shot.
> 
> I took some pretty decent underwater photos with my Nikonos V.
> Then I tried a little digital camera and found I had no more TTL
> metering, a crappy strobe that scared fish away with its preflashes,
> and an autofocus that insisted on focusing on what it wanted, rather
> than what I wanted.  And that's when I retired from underwater photography.

Pits.

>> I guess I should get a cell phone pretty soon.  Old guy, y'know, can
>> no longer be sure of walking home from anywhere in any weather and all
>> the pay phones are gone.
> 
> Flip phones are still available.  Keep your eyes open.
> You don't need to get an electronic ankle bracelet.

Yes indeed.  RSN. :-)

>> Digital house?  Um, will it chuck another bolt of wood into the kitchen
>> range or replace the leathers in my hand pump when needed?
> 
> No, but the TV will report to all and sundry just what you're watching
> and when you watch it.  And the fridge will do the same for your food.
> Big Brother, thy name is Google.

An upside to dialup net: The fridge can't call home surrepetitiously.

>> My electric toaster is 115 years old, gets used
>> daily in summer.  Don't think I need a digital one.

Thinko, sorry. The toaster is only 105 years old. 1913 model.  Should
I have used a calculator i.o. mental arithmetic? :-\

> Hear, hear.



-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> writes:

> On Wed, 28 Jun 2018, Mike Spencer wrote:
> 
> [big snip]
>
>> It's getting to be commonplace that when I go to the hardware store,
>> nobody under 50 has even heard of the thing I want to buy.  The old
>> guys may remember seeing the product but not for mumble years.
>> Waterglass?  Cheap fireproof stickum handy if you do stuff with open
>> flames.  Never heard of it.  Is there an app for that? :-\
>
> There used to be small stores that had been around "forever" and still run 
> by the original owner, or a descendant.  There was no liability to keeping 
> the old stuff around, so you could go there, someone would know about the 
> old stuff, and it was still around.
> 
> But a lot of those places are now closed, the owner dying or the rent 
> getting too high, and no small  stores taking over the territory, just 
> those big box stores.

I was just a year or two too late to get parts for my aging tiller.
There was a business like that in Truro, NS that was a dealership for
TroyBilt.  I had long counted on his having that back room full of
decades worth of parts.  But he got old, sold ths biz and the new guy
said, "What is all this crap?" and sent it to the the scrapyard.

There used to be an industrial supply biz in Halifax that had
evernthing: every type of file that Nicholson ever made; rolls of a
dosen kinds of gasket material; rolls of a dozen kinds of wire mesh;
babbit metal and putty; ever fastener you ever heard of and some you
haven't, stuff I couldn't identify but the geezers knew where and what
everything was.  Shelves to the ceiling, piles in the corners.  They
had a forge and fab shop, too. Heaven.

Went in one day, found a single young guy in a room with nothing but
waist-high retail display tables.  Nothing whatever there that I
couldn't buy in a dozen or more supply shops all over NS.  And the
young guy was *proud* and *boasting* that he had gotten rid of all
that old crap -- got $5,000 for all those Nicholson files -- and now
had a nice, tidy modern business.  Just like all the others. All the
others were easier to get to and had better parking.  RIP.

> Every so often I read about people finding such stores, they'd closed down 
> but the owner had kept things intact, paying the rent  (or maybe owning) 
> the property) until he dies and it's a goldmine of old stuff.  So in the 
> antique radio hobby, people find places like that and come home loaded 
> when the stuff is finally cleared out.  Or someoen finds a stock of old 
> toys because they were left in the back of some old store now being 
> cleared out.

I happened on such a 2- or 3-generations family hardware store of that
sort having a close-out sale nearly 50 years ago.  Bought stuff I
reckoned I'd never see again, even if I would never need it.  Some
things I'm using about now for the first time.  Broom maker's needle.  
Or have always been the only person I know that has some. Special
files for sharpening brace bits.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2018-06-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Michael Black <mbl...@pubnix.net> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2018, Mike Spencer wrote:
>> 
>> [big snip]
>>
>> the property) until he dies and it's a goldmine of old stuff.  So in the 
>> antique radio hobby, people find places like that and come home loaded 
>> when the stuff is finally cleared out.  Or someoen finds a stock of old 
>> toys because they were left in the back of some old store now being 
>> cleared out.
>
> I happened on such a 2- or 3-generations family hardware store of that
> sort having a close-out sale nearly 50 years ago.  Bought stuff I
> reckoned I'd never see again, even if I would never need it.  Some
> things I'm using about now for the first time.  Broom maker's needle.  
> Or have always been the only person I know that has some. Special
> files for sharpening brace bits.
>
> Sic transit gloria mundi.
>

What is happening here (.ie) is that a lot of the small stores just closed
and could nt be viably reopened during the Crash. People are renting them 
now shortterm, run them for a while, see if it could pay. _There_ is nothing
as depressing as sitting in a car in a town center, with everything boarded 
up. All gone to the Malls, which will will decompose as Amazon taakes over. 

For myself, I love Amazon, being partly disabled. I can still get all
sorts of books, wirelessly.



-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On 29/06/2018 18:26, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 6:19:46 AM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> 
>> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
>> possibility no one will want it. I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
>> pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
>> dead-tree pictures are in the past now.
>>
>> I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about the
>> same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics.
> 
> I gave up film when Kodak stopped developing it.  I was finding
> the cost of buying film going up, plus harder to find the type
> I wanted.  I got a digital SLR.
> 
> Admittedly, I miss my film camera, though generally, the digital
> can do more (like easily adapt to different light sources, motor
> drive, good auto focus/auto exposure, time/date stamp, and instant
> view.)
> 
> I think film handled high contrast situations better than digital.
> 
> A friend offered me his old Nikon F, a real classic, but I realized
> I'd have no use for it and it would just gather dust, so I declined.
> 
> Note--last time I checked, the chain drugstore still sold Tri-X,
> even though Kodak no longer makes processing chemical or print paper.
> 
> Kodak also has a Kodachrome magazine:
> https://www.kodak.com/US/en/kodachrome/default.htm
> 
> However, I tried finding still film on their website but couldn't.
> 
> 
I still have the kit to do BW processing (it was something I taught our 
children) and some 35 mm cameras, including a couple of CRFs. I get the 
urge every now and them to load up a film etc but the whole process is 
just to tedious. Not so much the actual processing - that is quite 
quick- but getting the improvised darkroom ready etc.

-- 

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They 
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On 30 Jun 2018 07:23:38 GMT
ma...@mail.com wrote:

> What is happening here (.ie) is that a lot of the small stores just closed
> and could nt be viably reopened during the Crash. People are renting them 
> now shortterm, run them for a while, see if it could pay. _There_ is
> nothing as depressing as sitting in a car in a town center, with
> everything boarded up. All gone to the Malls, which will will decompose
> as Amazon taakes over. 

	Thankfully there's far less of that in the rural areas. The small
shops are still here and Malls are rare outside of the larger cities.

	My village has two busy food shops, an excellent hardware shop that
in the last decade has only failed me two or three times, a pharmacy, a
post office, a couple of hairdressers, a decent mechanic, a really good tyre
place (it might pay to drive from Dublin to buy four tyres from him), a few
pubs, a bookie and of course a big creamery (erm agricultural supplier).

	The nearest town (not counting a seaside town which is also in
good shape for what it is) sports *two* thriving builder's merchants a
decent supermarket and a plethora of useful small shops most of which have
been there for decades. There are a couple of spots which permanently hold
the latest computer or phone repair service.

	The nearest big city (Limerick) OTOH is a mess, but hey it's
Limerick - Tralee and Killarney are both in good shape with busy centres.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:07:41 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

> I still have the kit to do BW processing (it was something I taught our
> children) and some 35 mm cameras, including a couple of CRFs. I get the
> urge every now and them to load up a film etc but the whole process is
> just to tedious. Not so much the actual processing - that is quite
> quick-
> but getting the improvised darkroom ready etc.

When I was at school, I got into making black and white transparencies, 
using normal black and white film. Great fun, and used a lot of that in a 
school project. Had the kit for years.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:55:01 -0400
Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> Perhaps we should really be nostalgic for the days when we had more
> privacy?

	Privacy isn't that hard just don't use the internet :) Works just
as well with today's multi-gigahertz machines as it did with a 4MHz Z80.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-06-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2018 07:23:38 GMT
> ma...@mail.com wrote:
>
>> What is happening here (.ie) is that a lot of the small stores just closed
>> and could nt be viably reopened during the Crash. People are renting them 
>> now shortterm, run them for a while, see if it could pay. _There_ is
>> nothing as depressing as sitting in a car in a town center, with
>> everything boarded up. All gone to the Malls, which will will decompose
>> as Amazon taakes over. 
>
> 	Thankfully there's far less of that in the rural areas. The small
> shops are still here and Malls are rare outside of the larger cities.
>
> 	My village has two busy food shops, an excellent hardware shop that
> in the last decade has only failed me two or three times, a pharmacy, a
> post office, a couple of hairdressers, a decent mechanic, a really good tyre
> place (it might pay to drive from Dublin to buy four tyres from him), a few
> pubs, a bookie and of course a big creamery (erm agricultural supplier).
>
> 	The nearest town (not counting a seaside town which is also in
> good shape for what it is) sports *two* thriving builder's merchants a
> decent supermarket and a plethora of useful small shops most of which have
> been there for decades. There are a couple of spots which permanently hold
> the latest computer or phone repair service.
>
> 	The nearest big city (Limerick) OTOH is a mess, but hey it's
> Limerick - Tralee and Killarney are both in good shape with busy centres.

Puck  fair coming up?

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On 30 Jun 2018 14:31:41 GMT
ma...@mail.com wrote:

> Puck  fair coming up?

	Mid August usually <checks> 10th-12th this year - the 400th.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-06-29, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2018-06-28, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>> 
>>> My electric toaster is 115 years old, gets used
>>> daily in summer.  Don't think I need a digital one.
>
> Thinko, sorry. The toaster is only 105 years old. 1913 model.  Should
> I have used a calculator i.o. mental arithmetic? :-\

No, keep those brain cells working.  Gotta stay on your toes...

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 2018-06-30, ma...@mail.com <ma...@mail.com> wrote:

> What is happening here (.ie) is that a lot of the small stores just closed
> and could nt be viably reopened during the Crash. People are renting them 
> now shortterm, run them for a while, see if it could pay. _There_ is nothing
> as depressing as sitting in a car in a town center, with everything boarded 
> up. All gone to the Malls, which will will decompose as Amazon taakes over. 

Around here, even the smaller malls have increasing numbers of boarded-up
shops.  With the exception of Sears, it's mostly the small independent
businesses.  Travel is becoming quite boring - no matter where you go,
it's the same set of big-box stores.  No variety.

    Now Main Street's whitewashed buildings and vacant stores.
    Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more.
    They're closing down the textile mill 'cross the railroad track.
    Foreman says these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back
    To your home town.
      -- Bruce Springsteen

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 30/06/2018 13:36, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:07:41 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:
> 
>> I still have the kit to do BW processing (it was something I taught our
>> children) and some 35 mm cameras, including a couple of CRFs. I get the
>> urge every now and them to load up a film etc but the whole process is
>> just to tedious. Not so much the actual processing - that is quite
>> quick-
>> but getting the improvised darkroom ready etc.
> 
> When I was at school, I got into making black and white transparencies,
> using normal black and white film. Great fun, and used a lot of that in a
> school project. Had the kit for years.
> 

Prior to going to Uni, I had a gap year working as a Lab Tech in a 
school. One of the interview questions was "Could you set up a 
darkroom." I'd never done any developing etc before but, working on the 
principle I could read up on it (this was before the internet) I said 
yes. I got the job. A few trips to the local library etc and all was well.

-- 

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They 
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 2:16:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> I've got about 8 unexposed rolls of Kodak ASA100 sitting in the fridge that I
> don't know what to do with.

Unless they are Kodachrome, there are still places that develop
film, especially color print (C-41) film.  You might as well take
some pictures.

Hint:  Many places offer an optional CD along with the prints.
I suggest that, as it makes emailing or retouching your pictures easier.

On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 4:08:09 AM UTC-4, Brian Reay wrote:

> I still have the kit to do BW processing (it was something I taught our 
> children) and some 35 mm cameras, including a couple of CRFs. I get the 
> urge every now and them to load up a film etc but the whole process is 
> just to tedious. Not so much the actual processing - that is quite 
> quick- but getting the improvised darkroom ready etc.

While Kodak no longer makes chemicals, other companies do, such as Ilford.
For instance:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Darkroom-Equipment/ci/4942/N/4288586562

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in news:fppqg7F4m0fU7
@mid.individual.net:

> On 2018-06-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Travel is becoming quite boring - no matter where you go, it's the
>> same set of big-box stores. 
> 
> Try going abroad, instead!
> 
> https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/indian-street-scene-13234319.jpg

For a while longer.  They have Walmart and 7-11 in China.

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in
news:fpmf...@mid.individual.net: 

> On 2018-06-29, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> [38 lines snipped]
> 
>> Getting ready to sell my Olympus in a garage sale, and there's a good
>> possibility no one will want it. 
> 
> I'm afraid so. I traded in all my OM stuff a few years ago and went
> Nikon, vowing never to spend another penny with Olympus, because they
> stiffed their loyal OM customers when they went digital by changing the
> lens mounting system, unlike Nikon, where decades old lenses can still
> be used (with limitations) on digital bodies. I got a few pounds for 2
> OM2 bodies and a number of lenses that probably cost me many hundreds
> of pounds. 
> 
>> I want to cry. That camera took wonderful
>> pictures, even with my limited knowledge of appropriate settings, but
>> dead-tree pictures are in the past now. 
> 
> Yep. Get used to it!
> 
>> I think you can get good digital SLR cameras, but the cost is about
>> the same as a good film camera, you're paying for the optics. 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> I saw someone using a portable CD player yesterday. Haven't seen one
> of those for years, either.

Saw some in a store just last week.  I was a little surprized.  My almost 
30-year-old son prefers one over his iPod because it's a lot easier to 
replace the CD than to delete stuff to make room on his iPod.

On 30/06/18 18:54, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Saturday, June 30, 2018 at 4:08:09 AM UTC-4, Brian Reay wrote:
> 
>> I still have the kit to do BW processing (it was something I taught our
>> children) and some 35 mm cameras, including a couple of CRFs. I get the
>> urge every now and them to load up a film etc but the whole process is
>> just to tedious. Not so much the actual processing - that is quite
>> quick- but getting the improvised darkroom ready etc.
> 
> While Kodak no longer makes chemicals, other companies do, such as Ilford.
> For instance:
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Darkroom-Equipment/ci/4942/N/4288586562
> 
> 

For no special reason other than the place I first bought my chemicals 
from sold them, I used to used a brand I'm sure was called Johnson. (Not 
sure re spelling, I've not bought any for years.) They made a range of 
chemicals, as I recall compatible with the common films and papers 
around at the time. I've no idea if they are still in business. The 
chemicals were, marginally, cheaper than the more famous brands. 
Kentmere springs to mind for papers. (This was in the mid 70s).

When I showed my children, I used own brand chemicals from one of the 
large high st stores, which I think has since gone under.

  I should dispose of the enlarger etc, it is just taking up space. I 
doubt I will use it again.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2018 12:27:03 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

> For no special reason other than the place I first bought my chemicals
> from sold them, I used to used a brand I'm sure was called Johnson. (Not
> sure re spelling, I've not bought any for years.)

Yes, we had that. I think I still have some Johnson equipmwent 
(developing tank etc.) somewhere.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 06/30/18 22:55, Alfred Falk wrote:

>>
>> I'm afraid so. I traded in all my OM stuff a few years ago and went
>> Nikon, vowing never to spend another penny with Olympus, because they
>> stiffed their loyal OM customers when they went digital by changing the
>> lens mounting system, unlike Nikon, where decades old lenses can still
>> be used (with limitations) on digital bodies. I got a few pounds for 2
>> OM2 bodies and a number of lenses that probably cost me many hundreds
>> of pounds.
>>

My brother had an OM2, sweet little camera, but didn't feel as robust as
the Nikkormat when I went o buy new around 1975. Brighter finder though.
Still have the Nikkormat, still works perfectly, but bought a used D700
body a couple of years ago which meters fine in manual mode, with all
the decades long lens collection. Still haven't tried an auto focus 
lens, but who needs it ?.

Canon changed their lens mount as well, but many times over the years...

Chris

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 2:16:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> I've got about 8 unexposed rolls of Kodak ASA100 sitting in the fridge that I
>> don't know what to do with.
>
>Unless they are Kodachrome, there are still places that develop
>film, especially color print (C-41) film.  You might as well take
>some pictures.

It's Kodak Gold 100 color film. Box says develop before 12/2005.

It's probably not worth the effort to shoot it up - All my
old Minolta lenses are now used with my Sony DSLR and I'm
not sure where the film body is anymore.

>
>Hint:  Many places offer an optional CD along with the prints.

Yeah, I did that back in the day.  The resolution was pretty sucky.  Probably
better now...

>I suggest that, as it makes emailing or retouching your pictures easier.

I've got a negative scanner that gives good results, albeit with more
work.

On Sunday, July 1, 2018 at 4:42:34 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> On 06/30/18 22:55, Alfred Falk wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> I'm afraid so. I traded in all my OM stuff a few years ago and went
> >> Nikon, vowing never to spend another penny with Olympus, because they
> >> stiffed their loyal OM customers when they went digital by changing the
> >> lens mounting system, unlike Nikon, where decades old lenses can still
> >> be used (with limitations) on digital bodies. I got a few pounds for 2
> >> OM2 bodies and a number of lenses that probably cost me many hundreds
> >> of pounds.
> >>
> 
> My brother had an OM2, sweet little camera, but didn't feel as robust as
> the Nikkormat when I went o buy new around 1975. Brighter finder though.
> Still have the Nikkormat, still works perfectly, but bought a used D700
> body a couple of years ago which meters fine in manual mode, with all
> the decades long lens collection. Still haven't tried an auto focus 
> lens, but who needs it ?.
> 
> Canon changed their lens mount as well, but many times over the years...

The Nikkormat was a damn good camera.

My Nikon DSLR has a manual metering mode, but the camera isn't designed
to use that as the primary method to meter.  So, metering manually
is cumbersome.  I've found that automatic metering works as well
or even better.

One mistake I made in buying the new system was getting a telephoto
lens without the stabilizer.  In bright light the lens works just
fine, but in low light, especially when I want to freeze movement,
a low shutter speed leads to blurriness I wouldn't have with 
stabilization.  A tripod doesn't help when I want to freeze motion.

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 10:07:04 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> >On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 2:16:04 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >
> >> I've got about 8 unexposed rolls of Kodak ASA100 sitting in the fridge that I
> >> don't know what to do with.
> >
> >Unless they are Kodachrome, there are still places that develop
> >film, especially color print (C-41) film.  You might as well take
> >some pictures.
> 
> It's Kodak Gold 100 color film. Box says develop before 12/2005.
> 
> It's probably not worth the effort to shoot it up - All my
> old Minolta lenses are now used with my Sony DSLR and I'm
> not sure where the film body is anymore.

I know a lot of photographers who have old film in the fridge
or freezer.  I might have some Ektachrome Tungsten buried
in the freezer.  (if I find that, it's being trashed, too old.)

Keeping film chilled extends its life.  But I have no idea how
much; I have no idea whether your 2005 print film would still
be good.  Since they can correct for a lot of errors in printing,
it might be usable (of course, if you no longer have the camera...)



> >Hint:  Many places offer an optional CD along with the prints.
> 
> Yeah, I did that back in the day.  The resolution was pretty sucky.  Probably
> better now...

In 2005, the resolution was decent and the CD was a big help
in emailing out my pictures.




> >I suggest that, as it makes emailing or retouching your pictures easier.
> 
> I've got a negative scanner that gives good results, albeit with more
> work.

On 07/02/18 19:40, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> The Nikkormat was a damn good camera.

Still is, but there is no more Kodachrome :-(, though Kodak have
recently re introduced Ektachrome. Usually shoot Fuji Provia 100
when in film camera mode, but all reversal film is getting more
difficult to find, expensive + processing cost isn't cheap now
either.

>
> My Nikon DSLR has a manual metering mode, but the camera isn't designed
> to use that as the primary method to meter.  So, metering manually
> is cumbersome.  I've found that automatic metering works as well
> or even better.

In fact, the D700 is natural in manual mode, like an F or F2, but you
never have to put film in it. Also has something they call adaptive D
lighting, which afaics, compresses each end of the curve and helps
with blowing out the highlights. Old model, but FF and waited years to
buy it, until the market became stable and prices low enough s/h to be
affordable, just.

>
> One mistake I made in buying the new system was getting a telephoto
> lens without the stabilizer.  In bright light the lens works just
> fine, but in low light, especially when I want to freeze movement,
> a low shutter speed leads to blurriness I wouldn't have with
> stabilization.  A tripod doesn't help when I want to freeze motion.
>

One of the things I like about digital is the wide range of iso, so
you always have choices as to aperture and speed. The always carry
camera here is an old Lumix, which has stabilisation and tele up to
500mm+ 35mm equivalent. Around 50 ukp s/hand and always just works...

Chris

On 7/2/2018 1:52 PM, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> Keeping film chilled extends its life.  But I have no idea how
> much; I have no idea whether your 2005 print film would still
> be good.  Since they can correct for a lot of errors in printing,
> it might be usable (of course, if you no longer have the camera...)

IIRC, a 5C rise doubles chemical reaction rate, so presumably if your 
freezer is at 0C (as opposed to 20C), that should slow deterioration 
by 16X. If it's still sealed in the original foil packets, I'd expect 
it to be fine. Always assuming there's nothing else going on like ice 
crystal formation to damage the film (that used to be the limiting 
factor with batteries, cool was good but if you froze them it damaged 
them internally).

I know that century-old exposed BW film left in a cache by Antarctic 
explorers and frozen into a block of ice was successfully developed 
(it had suffered some damage, but I suspect that was from moisture and 
mechanical damage).
> 

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 7:54:01 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:

> One of the things I like about digital is the wide range of iso, so
> you always have choices as to aperture and speed. The always carry
> camera here is an old Lumix, which has stabilisation and tele up to
> 500mm+ 35mm equivalent. Around 50 ukp s/hand and always just works...

For years I shot only slide film, but only because color print film was
more expensive and slide film was of higher quality.  I was thrilled
when Kodachrome 200 came out.

However, Kodak came out with 400/800 speed Ektachrome.  The quality
was poor.  Then they came out with 400/1000 speed Kodacolor print
film and the quality was pretty good.  Further, the price of
developing and printing day and turnaround time got faster; while
slide film service seemed to decline*.  I was very rarely projecting
and sharing my slides, so I transitioned to print film and was happy.

One thing that was inconsistent was light source color correction
in color printing.  Sometimes they (Kodak lab) did a great job 
correcting for tungsten light, but other times they did nothing.
Likewise with fluorescent light.

Some people did their own color printing, either from negatives
or slides, and of course there one can control it themselves if
they had a good enlarger.  (I knew someone who did Cibachrome and
got good results).  But color processing required strict tolerances.



* Kodak had a massive slide processing lab in Fair Lawn NJ.  I 
believe it has all been demolished and redeveloped for something else.
So it goes.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:26:54 -0400, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com>
wrote:

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:55:01 -0400
>> Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps we should really be nostalgic for the days when we had more
>>> privacy?
>>
>> 	Privacy isn't that hard just don't use the internet :) Works just
>> as well with today's multi-gigahertz machines as it did with a 4MHz Z80.
>
>I wasn't think of simply using the Internet. I was also thinking of how
>so many more entities are collecting data about us now, and how readily
>accessible that data can be.
>
>Much of the privacy that we took for granted years ago no longer
>exists. You can't even walk to the store in some areas without your
>presence being noted by any number of systems.
>
>You certainly can't go to a political or religious rally anymore and
>expect to remain anonymous. You can't even stop to listen to someone on
>a soapbox haranguing people in the park without the possibility that
>your presence will be noted and recorded.
>
>I've seen a number of demos of how good facial recognition is, and I've
>heard of projects to use a person's gait or other characteristics to
>identify them if their face isn't visible.
>
>None of this is news, but it is becoming all-pervasive and I see many
>possibilities for abuse.

Back in the 1970s I was watching day time television, which I stopped
doing not many years after that, and they were talking about security
cameras.

One police officer on the show talked about how they had arrested, and
the guy wound up being convicted, based on his walking pattern. The
camera's focus ability didn't work well. But the microphone was very
good. From the sound, and the visual of him walking, they managed to
get his walking pattern and use it for identification. Most likely it
has improved since then. The officer said it was about 70-75% accurate
back then.

Casinos in the US have been using face recognition for years to help
them spot grifters and others who come in to steal. Last I heard
anything about it, the FBI, etc. were very interested in the software.

Before the software, the casinos used 3-ring binder with photos,
names, descriptions, etc. in them of the grifters, pickpockets, etc.

JimP <solo...@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:26:54 -0400, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:55:01 -0400
>>> Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps we should really be nostalgic for the days when we had more
>>>> privacy?
>>>
>>> 	Privacy isn't that hard just don't use the internet :) Works just
>>> as well with today's multi-gigahertz machines as it did with a 4MHz Z80.
>>
>>I wasn't think of simply using the Internet. I was also thinking of how
>>so many more entities are collecting data about us now, and how readily
>>accessible that data can be.
>>
>>Much of the privacy that we took for granted years ago no longer
>>exists. You can't even walk to the store in some areas without your
>>presence being noted by any number of systems.
>>
>>You certainly can't go to a political or religious rally anymore and
>>expect to remain anonymous. You can't even stop to listen to someone on
>>a soapbox haranguing people in the park without the possibility that
>>your presence will be noted and recorded.
>>
>>I've seen a number of demos of how good facial recognition is, and I've
>>heard of projects to use a person's gait or other characteristics to
>>identify them if their face isn't visible.
>>
>>None of this is news, but it is becoming all-pervasive and I see many
>>possibilities for abuse.
>
> Back in the 1970s I was watching day time television, which I stopped
> doing not many years after that, and they were talking about security
> cameras.
>
> One police officer on the show talked about how they had arrested, and
> the guy wound up being convicted, based on his walking pattern. The
> camera's focus ability didn't work well. But the microphone was very
> good. From the sound, and the visual of him walking, they managed to
> get his walking pattern and use it for identification. Most likely it
> has improved since then. The officer said it was about 70-75% accurate
> back then.
>
> Casinos in the US have been using face recognition for years to help
> them spot grifters and others who come in to steal. Last I heard
> anything about it, the FBI, etc. were very interested in the software.
>
> Before the software, the casinos used 3-ring binder with photos,
> names, descriptions, etc. in them of the grifters, pickpockets, etc.

Interesting.

In small towns everyone knows you.
This photo ID stuff has parallels to living in a small town.

-- 
Dan Espen

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

Lol! That's quotable.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:26:54 -0400, Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2018 08:55:01 -0400
>> Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>> Perhaps we should really be nostalgic for the days when we had more
>>> privacy?
>>
>> 	Privacy isn't that hard just don't use the internet :) Works just
>> as well with today's multi-gigahertz machines as it did with a 4MHz Z80.
>
>I wasn't think of simply using the Internet. I was also thinking of how
>so many more entities are collecting data about us now, and how readily
>accessible that data can be.
>
>Much of the privacy that we took for granted years ago no longer
>exists. You can't even walk to the store in some areas without your
>presence being noted by any number of systems.
>
>You certainly can't go to a political or religious rally anymore and
>expect to remain anonymous. You can't even stop to listen to someone on
>a soapbox haranguing people in the park without the possibility that
>your presence will be noted and recorded.
>
>I've seen a number of demos of how good facial recognition is, and I've
>heard of projects to use a person's gait or other characteristics to
>identify them if their face isn't visible.

Facial recognition has intolerably high failure rates for minorities, in part
because the "training" data sets do not have sufficient examples.

I am waiting for big, floppy hats to become a widespread unisex fashion trend.

Or we could all become Juggalos.

On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 08:26:54 -0400
Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> I've seen a number of demos of how good facial recognition is, and I've

	Facial recognition is pretty good - when the set of possible
matches and the population checked are both small, it gets less good pretty
fast at scale. People have similar problems, try a search for 'eyewitness
error'.

> heard of projects to use a person's gait or other characteristics to
> identify them if their face isn't visible.

	Yes gait recognition can be and I think has been used to track an
selected person's progress automatically but I very much doubt it could be
used to identify an individual.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/