🚀 go-pugleaf

On 5/7/2018 7:51 PM, sidd wrote:
> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
> 
> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
> 
> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
> 
> sidd
> 
> 

Good. Thanks for checking on her.

Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> writes:

> On 5/7/2018 7:51 PM, sidd wrote:
>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>
>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>
>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>
>> sidd
>>
>>
>
> Good. Thanks for checking on her.

Glad to hear she's doing OK.

On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected. 
>
> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>
> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>
> sidd
>
>

Good.
Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?

Best to her, anyway.


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

<ma...@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected. 
>> 
>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>> 
>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>> 
>> sidd
>> 
>> 
> 
> Good.
> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
> 
> Best to her, anyway.
> 
> 

Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
to contribute.

-- 
Pete

On Mon, 7 May 2018 20:51:54 -0400 (EDT), si...@situ.com (sidd) wrote:

>Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected. 

    Thank you for checking.

>Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>
>More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:

> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected. 
>>> 
>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>> 
>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>> 
>>> sidd
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Good.
>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>> 
>> Best to her, anyway.
>
> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
> to contribute.

Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.

Unique is one word for it.


-- 
Dan Espen

Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> writes:
> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.

??? CFTC use to have rule that players needed significant position in
commodity to play because they found speculators resulted in wild,
irrational price swings ... then 19 "secret" letters went out to
speculators allowing them to play ... resulting in the huge spike in oil
& gas summer of 2008 (speculators pump & dump on the way up and then
short on the way down, their specialty is wild volitility that the
manage).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_energy_crisis
https://blog.euromonitor.com/2008/08/special-report-the-1979-vs-2008-oil-spike.html
gas hit over $4/gal
https://www.treehugger.com/cars/2008-us-gas-price-year-in-review.html

Griftopia: A Story of Bankers, Politicians, and the Most Audacious Power
Grab in American History
https://www.amazon.com/Griftopia-Machines-Vampire-Breaking-America-ebook/dp/B003F3FJS2/
The Great American Bubble Machine
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405
Wikileaks: Speculators Helped Cause Oil Bubble
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wikileaks-cables-show-speculators-behind-oil-bubble-20110526

2011, member of congress released to the public/press the transactions
showing the speculators responsible for the wild volitility. The funny
thing is that the press then chastised the member of congress for
violation of corporate privacy (aka corporations are people) ... rather
than criticising the speculators. post from 2011:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#76 FIA shocked and outraged after Senator leaks oil trading data
article
https://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=22911

Explaining his decision to leak, Sanders says: "This report clearly
shows that in the summer of 2008 when gas prices spiked to more than $4
a gallon, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and other speculators on Wall
Street dominated the crude oil futures market causing tremendous damage
to the entire economy. The CFTC has kept this information hidden from
the American public for nearly three years. That is an outrage."

... snip ...

2011 Congressional Resarch Service (at moment website isn't answering)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Research_Service_reports
Hedge Fund Speculation and Oil Price
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41902.pdf
and: Speculation, Fundamentals, and Oil Prices
https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=718960
more
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/

posts mentioning Griftopia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#griftopia

turns out some of the same players were responsible for the economic
mess. Originally thye paid for triple-A rating on toxic CDOs
(securitized mortgages) when the rating agencies knew weren't worth
triple-A (from Oct2008 congressional testimony into the role that rating
agencies played). That initially allowed them to start doing
no-documentation, liar loans, securitize, pay for triple-A and unload as
fast as they could be made (eliminating any need to care about
borrowers' qualifications and/or loan quality) ... in part opening up
selling to investors that are restricted to only dealing in "safe"
investments ... like big pension funds (significant contribution to
being able to do over $27T 2001-2008).

Then they find that the can design toxic CDOs to fail, pay for triple-A,
sell to customers and then take out CDS gambling bets that they would
fail ... now they cared about loan quality ... but not in good way.  The
largest holder of these CDS gambling bets was AIG and negotiating to pay
off at 50cents on the dolloar, when the SECTREAS steps in and has them
sign a document that they can't sue those making the CDS gambling bets
and take TARP funds to pay off at face value. The largest recipient of
TARP funds is AIG and the largest recipient of face value payoffs is the
firm formally headed by SECTREAS.

posts mentioning economic mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#economic.mess
posts mentioning (triple-A rated) toxic CDOs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#toxic.cdo


-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>
>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>
>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>
>>>> sidd
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good.
>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>
>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>
>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>> to contribute.
> 
> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
> 
> Unique is one word for it.
> 

If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to 
President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on 
services to ordinary citizens!!!


-- 
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> writes:

> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>
>>>>> sidd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good.
>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>
>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>
>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>> to contribute.
>>
>> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
>>
>> Unique is one word for it.
>
> If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to
> President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on
> services to ordinary citizens!!!

Well, here is one citizen that does not want to see that.
But then, I'm not deplorable, unlike some of our more
"unique" citizens.

Lynn's reply starts with "???".  Apparently his memory is
short.  BAH came here one day and claimed Obama was trying
to destroy the country by raising gas prices.  Turned out there
was a local spike in gas prices in Michigan.  Soon followed
by gas prices declining to historic lows nationwide.
(Under Obama.)

Now we have Trump tearing up the Iran deal.
For one reason only.  The same reason that drives most of what
he does.  It was Obama's deal.

Willful ignorance from our more "unique" citizens disgusts me.

-- 
Dan Espen

On Wed, 9 May 2018 01:40:04 -0500, Charles Richmond
<nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

>On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 
>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>
>>>>> sidd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good.
>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>
>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>
>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>> to contribute.
>> 
>> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
>> 
>> Unique is one word for it.
>> 
>
>If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to 
>President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on 
>services to ordinary citizens!!!

You are expecting Trump's devotees to see through his lies. My feeling
is they don't want to.

JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 May 2018 01:40:04 -0500, Charles Richmond
> <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> sidd
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good.
>>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>>> to contribute.
>>> 
>>> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
>>> 
>>> Unique is one word for it.
>>> 
>> 
>> If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to 
>> President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on 
>> services to ordinary citizens!!!
> 
> You are expecting Trump's devotees to see through his lies. My feeling
> is they don't want to.
> 

Apparently. I don't care about most of his stupid comments, etc., but the
man is simply incompetent.

-- 
Pete

On Wed, 9 May 2018 06:41:09 -0700, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>JimP <solo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 May 2018 01:40:04 -0500, Charles Richmond
>> <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> sidd
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good.
>>>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>>>> to contribute.
>>>> 
>>>> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
>>>> 
>>>> Unique is one word for it.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to 
>>> President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on 
>>> services to ordinary citizens!!!
>> 
>> You are expecting Trump's devotees to see through his lies. My feeling
>> is they don't want to.
>> 
>
>Apparently. I don't care about most of his stupid comments, etc., but the
>man is simply incompetent.

It might be easy to figure him out in that if his ego didn't come up
with something, then he feels its worthless. He also seems to adore
racists.

On 2018-05-08, Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected. 
>>> 
>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>> 
>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>> 
>>> sidd
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Good.
>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>> 
>> Best to her, anyway.
>> 
>> 
>
> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
> to contribute.
>

Love that phase;

I remember a obituay of an incredibly crusty old guy, "He didn't suffer
fools gladly"


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

In article <slrnpf2no5...@smaus.org>,  <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>Good.
>Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?

Michigan is right.

>Best to her, anyway.

sidd

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> writes:
> 2011, member of congress released to the public/press the transactions
> showing the speculators responsible for the wild volitility. The funny
> thing is that the press then chastised the member of congress for
> violation of corporate privacy (aka corporations are people) ... rather
> than criticising the speculators. post from 2011:
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#76 FIA shocked and outraged after Senator leaks oil trading data

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#93 Barb

and more drift, "corporations are people", We the Corporations: How
American Businesses Won Their Civil Rights
https://www.amazon.com/We-Corporations-American-Businesses-Rights-ebook/dp/B01M64LRDJ/

pgxi/loc45-50:

IN DECEMBER 1882, ROSCOE CONKLING, A FORMER SENATOR and close confidant
of President Chester Arthur, appeared before the justices of the Supreme
Court of the United States to argue that corporations like his client,
the Southern Pacific Railroad Company, were entitled to equal rights
under the Fourteenth Amendment. Although that provision of the
Constitution said that no state shall “deprive any person of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law” or “deny to any person
within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” Conkling
insisted the amendment’s drafters intended to cover business
corporations too.

... snip ...

Conkling in his arguments claimed that the authors of 14th amendment had
intended to include "corporations" in addition to "persons", but failed
to add the wording in the final text. Later somebody reviewed all the
notes by the authors and found no such reference to corporations
(Conkling had fabricated his argument before the Supreme Court).

pgxiv/loc74-78:

Between 1868, when the amendment was ratified, and 1912, when a scholar
set out to identify every Fourteenth Amendment case heard by the Supreme
Court, the justices decided 28 cases dealing with the rights of African
Americans—and an astonishing 312 cases dealing with the rights of
corporations.

pgxviii/loc132-36:

For most of American history, the Supreme Court failed to protect the
dispossessed and the marginalized, with the justices claiming to be
powerless in the face of hostile public sentiment. As we will see,
however, the court’s record on corporate rights was much different. In
1809, the Supreme Court decided the first case on the constitutional
rights of corporations, decades before the first comparable cases for
women or racial minorities. And unlike women and minorities, who lost
nearly all of their early cases, corporations won that first case—and
have compiled an impressive list of victories in the years since.

pg229/loc3667-68:

IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, CORPORATIONS WON LIBERTY RIGHTS, SUCH AS
FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGION, WITH THE HELP OF ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

... snip ...

Tobacco industry is fighting back against anti-tobacco with scientists
for hire, Merchants of Doubt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt
http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/
https://www.amazon.com/Merchants-Doubt-Handful-Scientists-Obscured-ebook/dp/B003RRXXO8/

but loosing out to Nader and public citizen groups.

pg278/loc4393-94:

CHAPTER 9 The Corporation’s Justice

... snip ...

Has tobacco industry then fighting back with board member appointed to
supreme court and "capturing" the national chamber of commerce for
corporations to gain 1st amendment rights.

"The Influence Machine: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Corporate
Capture of American Life"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NDTUDHA/


recent refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#52 We the Corporations: How American Businesses Won Their Civil Rights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#54 We the Corporations: How American Businesses Won Their Civil Rights



-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On 2018-05-09, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnpf2no5...@smaus.org>,  <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Good.
>>Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>
> Michigan is right.
>
>>Best to her, anyway.
>
> sidd
>


I get confused about the US 2 character identifiers


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On 5/9/2018 7:46 AM, JimP wrote:
> On Wed, 9 May 2018 01:40:04 -0500, Charles Richmond
> <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sidd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good.
>>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>>> to contribute.
>>>
>>> Yep, Obama tried to destroy the country by raising gas prices.
>>>
>>> Unique is one word for it.
>>>
>>
>> If you want to see someone actively destroying the country... look to
>> President T-Rump.  He gives welfare to the rich and cuts back on
>> services to ordinary citizens!!!
> 
> You are expecting Trump's devotees to see through his lies. My feeling
> is they don't want to.
> 

Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!

-- 
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!

Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
like that...

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!
> 
> Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
> like that...
> 

Either way. There are many people I see opiniating on TV, and the Dems are
just as bad as the Reps in never admitting that their person might have
done something wrong and/or stupid. I prefer not to listen to either group.

-- 
Pete

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:

> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!
>
> Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
> like that...

Talk about an astounding lack of perspective.

-- 
Dan Espen

On Wed, 09 May 2018 17:47:54 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!
>>
>> Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
>> like that...
>
>Talk about an astounding lack of perspective.

Far as I'm concerned, a pox on all their houses.  God needs to give
the universe an enema and place the nozzle in DC.

On Wed, 2018-05-09, J  Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2018 17:47:54 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!
>>>
>>> Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
>>> like that...
>>
>>Talk about an astounding lack of perspective.
>
> Far as I'm concerned, a pox on all their houses.

Some say that was the end goal of getting Trump elected: disgusting
people so they'd lose faith in democracy ...

> God needs to give the universe an enema and place the nozzle in DC.

I suspect the US citizens will have to do it themselves.
(I'm not one of them, so I'll shut up now.)

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On 9 May 2018 22:49:09 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se>
wrote:

>On Wed, 2018-05-09, J  Clarke wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 17:47:54 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, T-Rump's supporters have "drunk the kool aid"!!!
>>>>
>>>> Of course 0bummer's and Hitlery's useful idiots would never do anything
>>>> like that...
>>>
>>>Talk about an astounding lack of perspective.
>>
>> Far as I'm concerned, a pox on all their houses.
>
>Some say that was the end goal of getting Trump elected: disgusting
>people so they'd lose faith in democracy ...

We lost faith in it long ago, which is why so few of us vote.  The
problem is what to _do_ about it.  The founders really should have put
"none of the above" and "hang all of the above" as options on the
ballot.
>
>> God needs to give the universe an enema and place the nozzle in DC.
>
>I suspect the US citizens will have to do it themselves.
>(I'm not one of them, so I'll shut up now.)
>
>/Jorgen

On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 
>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>
>>>>> sidd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good.
>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>
>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>
>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>> to contribute.
>> 


Perhaps one might consider a different perspective;

in about 2011 there was an election in here. One side advocated
introducing a variation of Obamacare her, and they 'won' the election,
so before introducing the new system (which I understand is paying
insurance companies to cover everyone), the department did a simulation 
of its effects. its conclusion was that it was not affordable. 

AFAIK, a similiar system has been introduced in Netherlands, which
helped with waiting lists, but has driven costs up a lot.

I know that veterniary costs here have risen a lot since many people
have taken out insurance for small animals.

Go into any garage here to get some repair done. The man you are dealing
with will ask you if this work will be paid through insurance, and if
you say 'Yes', your bill will be far higher.
 

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

maus <ma...@mail.com> writes:

> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Barb emailed me back. She is as well as may be expected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having difficulty getting to the net. Using library computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More importantly, she was off to the tulip festival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sidd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good.
>>>>> Needs to be done too: Is that in Michagan?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best to her, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, she is a lady of strong opinions, but usually has a unique perspective
>>>> to contribute.
>>> 
>
>
> Perhaps one might consider a different perspective;
>
> in about 2011 there was an election in here. One side advocated
> introducing a variation of Obamacare her, and they 'won' the election,
> so before introducing the new system (which I understand is paying
> insurance companies to cover everyone), the department did a simulation 
> of its effects. its conclusion was that it was not affordable. 

You're claiming that the Affordable Care Act is not affordable?

Without any supporting evidence, in fact there is evidence to the
contrary.

The ACA stands out as a piece of legislation that raised taxes
sufficient to pay it's costs.  Given the reaction of the economy
in the years following passage, your claim that it is not affordable
is denied by the evidence.

But now we have a new regime and completely unpaid for tax cuts
and spending increases.  I'm afraid we are going to find out
how well that works.

-- 
Dan Espen

On 2018-05-10, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> maus <ma...@mail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>> of its effects. its conclusion was that it was not affordable. 
>
> You're claiming that the Affordable Care Act is not affordable?
>
> Without any supporting evidence, in fact there is evidence to the
> contrary.
>
> The ACA stands out as a piece of legislation that raised taxes
> sufficient to pay it's costs.  Given the reaction of the economy
> in the years following passage, your claim that it is not affordable
> is denied by the evidence.
>
> But now we have a new regime and completely unpaid for tax cuts
> and spending increases.  I'm afraid we are going to find out
> how well that works.
>

I am reporting what a study _here_ reported. People get hung up on what
party is supporting on what, in my experience that does not help.


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

maus <ma...@mail.com> writes:

> On 2018-05-10, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> maus <ma...@mail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2018-05-09, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/8/2018 9:30 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>>> Peter Flass <peter...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> <ma...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2018-05-08, sidd <si...@situ.com> wrote:
>>> of its effects. its conclusion was that it was not affordable. 
>>
>> You're claiming that the Affordable Care Act is not affordable?
>>
>> Without any supporting evidence, in fact there is evidence to the
>> contrary.
>>
>> The ACA stands out as a piece of legislation that raised taxes
>> sufficient to pay it's costs.  Given the reaction of the economy
>> in the years following passage, your claim that it is not affordable
>> is denied by the evidence.
>>
>> But now we have a new regime and completely unpaid for tax cuts
>> and spending increases.  I'm afraid we are going to find out
>> how well that works.
>
> I am reporting what a study _here_ reported. People get hung up on what
> party is supporting on what, in my experience that does not help.

A study done in Ireland reported that the ACA is un-affordable?

That seems nuts.

My comments don't come from any party.
I don't need a party to tell me that we had job growth and an
end to the GWB recession under the ACA.

-- 
Dan Espen

On 2018-05-10, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My comments don't come from any party.
> I don't need a party to tell me that we had job growth and an
> end to the GWB recession under the ACA.

The sun also rose and set on time under the ACA. Perhaps you would
like to credit 0bummer and the DemocRAT weasels who railroaded ACA
through a reluctant Congress and unwilling public credit for that
as well.

For the most part the only people that benefited from ACA are the usual
suspects that DemocRATs cater to - entitlement parasites. Productive
people who actually work for a living and pay their own way are saddled
with higher deductibles and higher premiums to offset the parasites.

Of course the way ACA was peddled was just a recent example of huge
lies made by "progressive" DemocRATs over the decades. You'd think at
some point the sheep would look up.

"The income tax will never affect working people, it's just a nuisance
tax on the rich."

"The federal reserve will end the boom/bust cycle (depressions/recessions)."

"The Social Security Number will never be used as a national identifier."

"If you like your plan and your doctor, you can keep them."

Yeah, right -- and the check is in the mail.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2018-05-10, Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-05-10, Dan Espen <dan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My comments don't come from any party.
>> I don't need a party to tell me that we had job growth and an
>> end to the GWB recession under the ACA.
>
> The sun also rose and set on time under the ACA. Perhaps you would
> like to credit 0bummer and the DemocRAT weasels who railroaded ACA
> through a reluctant Congress and unwilling public credit for that
> as well.
>
> For the most part the only people that benefited from ACA are the usual
> suspects that DemocRATs cater to - entitlement parasites. Productive
> people who actually work for a living and pay their own way are saddled
> with higher deductibles and higher premiums to offset the parasites.
>
> Of course the way ACA was peddled was just a recent example of huge
> lies made by "progressive" DemocRATs over the decades. You'd think at
> some point the sheep would look up.
>
> "The income tax will never affect working people, it's just a nuisance
> tax on the rich."

Cartoon in a local newspaper, accountant is talking to his client.
"Congulations, you have had a good year, so good that you need not pay
income tax."

>
> "The federal reserve will end the boom/bust cycle (depressions/recessions)."
>
> "The Social Security Number will never be used as a national identifier."
>
> "If you like your plan and your doctor, you can keep them."
>
> Yeah, right -- and the check is in the mail.

I wrote a while ago that I was buying a new form of PDA, well, it turns
out that I didn't, a kerfuffe in my bank voided the transaction.
Awaiting details

>


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

ACA and like ilk have been peddled on "single payer" ...  to address the
enormous rise in costs and profits by the health care industry.

there was some news about numerous meetings (lobbying by any other name)
by the health care industry with both the executive and legislative
branches just before ACA final vote ... and single payer disappears from
ACA. After ACA there is even greater increase in profits (along with
news about huge increase executive compensation ... rewards for doing
something).

there had been big spike in private equity buying up beltway bandits and
gov. contractors after the start of the century ... big factor was
beltway bandits and gov. contractors had significant limitations on how
much they could spend on lobbying ... however private equity owners seem
to have no similar restriction

Barbarians at the Capitol: Private Equity, Public Enemy
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/barbarians-capitol-private-equity-public-enemy/

Lou Gerstner, former ceo of ibm, now heads the Carlyle Group, a
Washington-based global private equity firm whose 2006 revenues of $87
billion were just a few billion below ibm's. Carlyle has boasted George
H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, and former Secretary of State James Baker III
on its employee roster

... including acquiring beltway bandit that will employ Snowden.

then after ACA there were similar stories about private equity making
big move into health care ... buying up rest homes, hospitals, etc.

private equity posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#100 Barb

heath care and drug industry heavily into all administrations

Trump to Drop Call for Medicare to Negotiate Lower Drug Prices
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/us/politics/trump-prescription-drug-costs.html

First major bill after fiscal responsibility act (spending can't
exceed tax revenue) lapse in 2002, was Medicare part-d in 2003. CBS
60mins had expose where the 18 republicans responsible for getting the
bill passed made a one line change just before the final vote and
prevents CBO from distributing analysis of the change. Change was to
preclude competitive bidding (CBS showed drugs under part-D were three
times the price of identical drugs with competitive bidding). Within
six months of the bill passing, all 18 have resigned and are on drug
industry payroll. At least by 2005, US Comptroller General is
including in speeches that nobody in congress was capable of middle
school arithmetic (for how badly they were savaging the budget) and
that Medicare Part-D comes to be a long term $40T item, swamping all
other budget items.

Medicare part-d posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#medicare.part-d
fiscal responsibility act posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#fiscal.responsibility.act
US Comptroller General posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#comptroller.general

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <ly...@garlic.com> writes:
> ACA and like ilk have been peddled on "single payer" ...  to address the
> enormous rise in costs and profits by the health care industry.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#100  Barb
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018c.html#101  Barb

Progressives and Conservatives Agree: Single Payer Healthcare Is
Inevitable
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-stone-md/progressives-and-conserva_b_676488.html
http://pnhp.org/blog/2010/08/10/progressives-and-conservatives-agree-single-payer-healthcare-is-inevitable/

Everyone loves to pick on the Affordable Care Act (ACA), and well they
should. This 2,000+ page contraption, this heap of handouts to the
special interest lobbyists with a few shiny baubles thrown in to placate
the common folk, was not only written by the for-profit health insurance
industry but now will be implemented by former WellPoint/Anthem Vice
President Liz Fowler who actually penned much of the law in her role as
Max Baucus' chief healthcare counsel for the Senate Finance Committee.

... snip ...

lots of articles from 2010 about ACA primarily handouts for special
interests ... but all that seems to be forgotton now.

Sick and Wrong; How Washington is screwing up health care reform -- and
why it may take a revolt to fix it
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/sick-and-wrong-20100405

Fully $350 billion a year could be saved on paperwork alone if the
U.S. went to a single-payer system -- more than enough to pay for the
whole goddamned thing

... snip ..

past posts referencing washington politics as "Kabuki Theater" ... what you
see has very little with what is really going on ... more like Roman
Circus to distract the public
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#kabuki.theater

also "Kabuki dance"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabuki_dance

Representative Rosa DeLauro, a Democratic member of the U.S. House of
Representatives from Connecticut, also used the term to refer to the
Republican Party effort to repeal the 2010 health care reform act,
telling reporters, "It's a kabuki dance. The fact of the matter is we're
not going to repeal it.

... snip ...

if all the medical & drug industry special interests that were the
primary beneficiaries of ACA really were against it, it would have never
passed (and on the off-chance it managed to pass, it would have been
immediately repealed).

Kabuki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabuki

This article is about Japanese theater. For American political pretense,
see Kabuki dance. For other uses, see Kabuki (disambiguation).  Not to
be confused with noh theater.

... snip ...

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970