🚀 go-pugleaf

> I like the teacher who said "RISC chips are faster than CISC chips
>  because they have fewer components, so the electrons don't have as far
>  to go." -- well, yes, but.....

Reminds me of my AI teacher who had been pursued down to the hardware level
on the subject of knowledge representation.  The class had a couple of people
who knew nothing about hardware but wanted an answer about "what a bit was".
Well the profs final attempt was:

	student: what's a bit? how does it represent one or zero?
	prof: 	 ever lick a battery?
	student: yes....
	prof: 	 that tingle - thats a one!

That put an end to that digression.


\n

In article <1990Feb27.1...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, ni...@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Nick Christopher) writes:
| > I like the teacher who said "RISC chips are faster than CISC chips
| >  because they have fewer components, so the electrons don't have as far
| >  to go." -- well, yes, but.....
| Reminds me of my AI teacher who had been pursued down to the hardware level
| on the subject of knowledge representation.  The class had a couple of people
| who knew nothing about hardware but wanted an answer about "what a bit was".
| Well the profs final attempt was:
| 	student: what's a bit? how does it represent one or zero?
| 	prof: 	 ever lick a battery?
| 	student: yes....
| 	prof: 	 that tingle - thats a one!
| That put an end to that digression.

That reminded me of one of my earliest programming classes in which
another student asked the instructor the equivalent to the question
"How does a computer actually compute?"  The instructor, rather than
try to fit a course on digital hardware into the remaining few minutes
of the class, gave the memorable reply

		"Magic"
					Rich Strebendt
					...!att!ihlpb!res
					r.str...@att.com

At my old high school, all students had to do a JUNIOR THEME in
English class, a large research paper.  In order to try to keep
students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes
(or said they did).  Also, they made students turn in their note
cards, which were a required intermediate step.

My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
processed.  The teacher told us the department was considering making
students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
understand why the students thought this idea was funny.

In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
>
>My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
>processed.  The teacher told us the department was considering making
>students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
>understand why the students thought this idea was funny.

Okay, I'll bite.

Why was this funny?

>  My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
>  processed.

I believe I was the first person in my high school to turn in a
word-processed English paper.  It took considerable effort to convince
the teacher that the computer hadn't "written the paper for me".
--
John Owens		jo...@jetson.UPMA.MD.US		uunet!jetson!john
+1 301 249 6000		john%jet...@uunet.uu.net

In article <21...@milton.acs.washington.edu> dig...@milton.acs.washington.edu (Chuck Bigham) writes:
   In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
   >
   >My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
   >processed.  The teacher told us the department was considering making
   >students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
   >understand why the students thought this idea was funny.

   Okay, I'll bite.

   Why was this funny?


It's funny if they wanted the floppy disks to keep the students from
sharing their work with each other or with students who take the class
in the future.  Can you say *backup*?  I knew you could. :-)

Come to think of it, it's downright *hilarious* if they expected to
actually _read_ all of the floppies they would get!

Lane
l...@usl.edu

In article <LAR.90Ma...@pc.usl.edu> l...@pc.usl.edu (Robert Lane A.) writes:
>In article <21...@milton.acs.washington.edu> dig...@milton.acs.washington.edu (Chuck Bigham) writes:
>   In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
>   >
>   >My year was one of the first that most of the papers were word
>   >processed.  The teacher told us the department was considering making
>   >students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
>   >understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
>   Okay, I'll bite.
>   Why was this funny?
>
>It's funny if they wanted the floppy disks to keep the students from
>sharing their work with each other or with students who take the class
>in the future.  Can you say *backup*?  I knew you could. :-)

They could use the floppies to CHECK for copies.  For example, they
input a certain string (from a given report) and search (grep, if you
like) for that string in ALL THE PAST REPORTS.  The reports could
be put on a hard disk for this purpose.  You would have to make sure
you used a suitable search string to get the number of matches
you were looking for (for example, the string "Introduction" probably
would match 90% of the papers, but "Stallings shows that the performance"
might only catch the copies).

Example algorithm:

	for each new paper
		get a 'unique' string from the paper
		for each old paper
			search for 'unique' string in old papers
			report hits for further evaluation
	 	done
	done

For 100 new papers and 1000 old ones, you do have a lot of computer time,
but it could run overnight.

It *is* funny if they only wanted it for the reason you say, but
it could be used as an automated copy-checker.


Steve Casagrande
s...@lzga.att.com

In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
}... to try to keep
}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...

}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.

Neither can I.  Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk.  So?
Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
themes, either.  The point is the department can build a machine readable
database of papers.  That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
is the whole point.

Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.

-- 
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, holl...@ttidca.tti.com)  Illegitimis non
Citicorp(+)TTI                                                 Carborundum
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (213) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe

In article <LAR.90Ma...@pc.usl.edu> l...@pc.usl.edu (Robert Lane A.) writes:
>
>Come to think of it, it's downright *hilarious* if they expected to
>actually _read_ all of the floppies they would get!
>

Maybe it was just a scam to get a bunch of free floppies! :-) :-)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fred Buechler                           fr...@llama.rtech.com
Devil Mountain Consulting, Inc          71261...@compuserve.com
Concord, California                     # include <DISCLAIMERS.STD>
"Don't test for an error condition that you don't know how to handle"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article <10...@ttidca.TTI.COM> holl...@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
>}... to try to keep
>}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...
>
>}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
>}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
>}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
>Neither can I.  Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk.  So?
>Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
>themes, either.  The point is the department can build a machine readable
>database of papers.  That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
>is the whole point.
>
>Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.
>
ARGH!

Unless this was the computer science department (or a very progressive
English department) I doubt that they were planning to do copy
detection.

I can see it now!  100 disks handed in: several different physical
sizes, several different OS formats (for each size), and several
different file formats (for each OS).  Yeah, there are solutions
to this problem, but none are real elegant.      

The main point of handing in note-cards is not to prevent copying.
Educators (the good ones at least) are trying to make the students
go through a tried-and-true process of writing a research paper,
not to catch cheaters.

I'm sure many students think that the note-card issues is to stop
them from cheating.  They, like all young people, sometimes fail
to see the big picture.  I sure would have thought like them,
but not now.

I found the folklore humorous for two reasons: 1) the educator
got lost in technology and 2) the students thought they were
really going to get away with something.

Handing in disks in lieu of note-cards is silly unless it can
document the research process in some way.  Even if it could,
would the educator be able to read the format?

Handing in disks as machine readable  copies of papers is silly,
too, unless the department is willing and able to handle the
problem of varying formats.          

-- 
   /   George D. Nincehelser           \  uunet!swbatl!george       \
  / /   Southwestern Bell Telephone     \  Phone: (314) 235-6544     \
 / / /   Advanced Technology Laboratory  \  Fax:  (314) 235-5797      \
/ / / /\  1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101  \  de asini umbra disceptare \

In article <10...@ttidca.TTI.COM> holl...@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>In article <1990Feb28.2...@athena.mit.edu> ers...@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes:
>}... to try to keep
>}students from reusing papers, they kept a file of old junior themes ...
>
>}... The teacher told us the department was considering making
>}students turn in the floppy disk they did their work on.  He couldn't
>}understand why the students thought this idea was funny.
>
>Neither can I.  Yes, the students can keep a copy of the disk.  So?
>Nothing kept the students from making copies of their note cards and old
>themes, either.  The point is the department can build a machine readable
>database of papers.  That would make copy detection _much_ easier -- which
>is the whole point.
>
>Sounds more like a stupid student trick to me.

No way.  You vastly overestimate the intelligence of a high school
English department.  The reason they wanted the disks was so that
students couldn't just give each other electronic copies to modify.
This was of course ridiculous, because all the students would have
backups anyway.  The English department probably didn't own any
computers, and certainly lacked the sophistication.  The disks would
have been IBM, Apple (II and Mac), TRS-80, and who knows what else.
I could imagine a college trying to do what you're describing, but
it was definitely NOT what my high school intended.

In article <13...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM> r...@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Rich Strebendt) writes:
>
>That reminded me of one of my earliest programming classes in which
>another student asked the instructor the equivalent to the question
>"How does a computer actually compute?"  The instructor, rather than
>try to fit a course on digital hardware into the remaining few minutes
>of the class, gave the memorable reply
>
>		"Magic"
>					Rich Strebendt
>					...!att!ihlpb!res
>					r.str...@att.com

Which reminds me of my first day in Partial Differential Equations:

		Me (an Engineering student): "What are we going to DO with the
		equations?"

		Prof (scowling): SOLVE them!



-- 
David Harrington		                      internet: dgh@unify.UUCP
Unify Corporation		                ...!{csusac,pyramid}!unify!dgh
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