🚀 go-pugleaf

Right Jack!

All things you described are very much the characteristics of capitalist country. Why then did people of Poland overthrow communist
government and same people today strive very hard towards capitalist economy and all those things: expensive doctors and dentists,
justified taxes, nice cars with real insurance that pays when you have accident, etc. I think you are grossly wrong thinking that a
person would be better off doing his old work (panszczyzne). You might as well go back to communism and have all those free things:
education, health care, cheap insurance. Right!? From other things, going to a lousy doctor with 'koniak i bombonierka' is not to
be compared with going to a real doctor who can halp you and pay as much as he deserves to be paid for his skill and knowledge.
dentists in Poland can cost too if you care to go to a good one.

Sorry but I don't agree! I have lived 15 years in Poland. Now I have lived 15 years in the west. I can compare, can you? i have
worked on both sides for long time and have used all those 'good' things from both sides. In fact I am currently in Poland, I have
been hesre for a month now and I often travel here, I see and I hear what most of people are doing, saying, how they live. My
comments are for those who have courage to become enterpreneurs and make a lot more than $4000 a month (read me text, I said $4000
a month at a minimum!).

You exagerrate extremely the POTENTAIL expenses and you belitle the potential income that a computer consultant can make. I don't
always have a car when I work, only when I need it. My wife does not get pregnant unless we plan it (did you hear of contraceptives
or you just don't use them). In fact having a wife with you is a great benefit, even if she is not working. She takes care of the
bookkeeping, shopping, she can find all those cheap groceries and make you feel well when you work hard (unless you are married to
someone who just likes your money). IRS is an american tax collection agency, european countries have their equivalent and you have
to pay taxes, but in most countries all business related expenses are deducted from income before tax is calulated, i.e. you pay
tax on net profit not on all the money you make. This can mean that if you make $100,000 and have expenses of $60,000, you will pay
for example 25% on $40,000 or $10,000. This is really 10% of the gross amount!. In Switzerland and Luxembourg the tax is only 12%
or the net amount anyway. You don't have to go to USA, I assume you don't want to anyway. I don't blame you but I have other
reasons. I have no love for american nation, in fact I have much against them, there is too much crime in their cities, the food
sucks and there is little to see there besides their national parks. Nevertheless, their money doesn't stink, they have lots of
work, they pay very well.

As for: 
> Ja na to ze prace na zlecenie sa dla ludzi ktorzy lubia 
> siedziec w domu w gaciach i czekac na nastepna prace.
I will only say that, if I can make 4 times more money and spent it on things that I like, travel, entertainment, and support my
financially less fortunate family in Poland, then I go for it. My chice also gives me freedom, no boses, frequent change in
projects, travel to new cities where I find new contracts. And generally gives me more experience what in the future lets me find
new, better paid, more interesting contracts. I say, screw permanent jobs and I do contracts. But if you feel so strong about your
points, please do continue to work the way you are. To other readers, I say, that I have 2 years of work in Poland, 10 years of
permanent work in the west, and over 5 years of contracting in several western countries behind me. When I look for work I have
choices of 4 to 6 countries and a range of hourly wage much higher than $40/hr. This takes time and hard work, you do not get it by
waiting at home 'W gaciach'.

My comments can be interpreted any way you wish, I do hope though that others will find the energy and courage to get up and fight
for their right to be paid same money as their western colegues.

To find more info on how much consultants make in USA and other countries (although most info is about USA), go to www site:
www.realrates.com

I hope someone will benefit from our discussion here,

-- 
Lawrence Kotarba
Globtek Inc.
globtek@ibm.net

> enterpreneurs and make a lot more than $4000 a month 
> (read me text, I said $4000 a month at a minimum!).

Wow, Lawrence Kotarba discovered America.  There must 
be some strange magic to this place called California!
They pay you all of this money just to come out here.
Gold rush!

Not really.

Take a plot of land in Poland and professionals
who work for $1000/month.  Establish a closed
technopark community there.  Pay companies $4000/month
to hire a head of household in the community.  Charge 
professionals $50,000 down payment and $2000/month in 
interest and insurance to buy a house there.  A house by 
the way which costs $50,000 to build.  Charge people
$400/month for after school daycare and hire Polish
women for 1000 PLN/month to take care of the children.
(the $400/month turns into profit for the technopark).
Buy Polish Cinquecentos and charge people $400/month
to lease them, for insurance, and $50/hour for mechanics
to fix them (that should bring the technopark $300/month
profit).  Charge professionals who work in the technopark
%20 of $5,000 instead of %20 of $1000 per month in taxes.
That should bring your technopark $1000 per month in profit.

$2000/mortgage interest + insurance + property taxes
$1000/month taxes
$400/month 2 kids public school after hours daycare
$300/month Fiat

total: roughly $4000/month

And there you have it, your computer professional in Poland
does not need to move to California to live and work in
California.  You pay companies $4,000/month/head of household in 
government assistance to set up shop in the community, and 
take $4,000 away from families in the form of miscellaneous 
taxes and expenses.  Firms then need to pay $5,000/month to get
somebody to work for them.  Because that is how much
your Polish professional requires in spending money to get by
these days.  It all adds up.

How does all of this work?

About 1/2 of the jobs in California require work for
government military or commercial contracts.  The government
lends money to banks and insurance companies, these institutions
in turn supply the people.

The interest and insurance and property tax for the house, the 
income taxes, the loan/lease interest and insurance for the car, 
the taxes paid by daycare workers, all are a form of payback to 
the government.

California earning/spending breakdown:

$5000/month

=

$2000/month mortgage and misc. house expenses
$400/month car (practicallly required in U.S.) *
$400/month after school daycare 3PM-5PM public school x 2 children
$1000/month taxes (%20)

$1200/month spending money

* - L.A. Daily Automotive Section news estimates cost of 
    buying/insuring/maintaining Ford Escort $4400/year.


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