🚀 go-pugleaf

Sheldon England <sheldonengland netscape.net> wrote: 

> Hi everybody! 

> It goes without saying that graphically it is extremely
> pleasing, both in campaign (turn-based) and strategic (RTS)
> modes. I'm really not sure what they could do to improve the
> experience. 

Unless you have mentioned this... Making the game playable on
low-end systems would improve the experience. That comes to my
mind when you mention graphics and the experience in the same
paragraph. 

Good luck and have fun.
-- 














> 
> Is Shogun 2 Total War a perfect game? No. But it sure satisfies all my 
> TW gaming needs in a fun and challenging way and will keep me pacified 
> for a few years while they (hopefully) work on Rome 2 Total War. I'll 
> give it a 9.5/10.
> 
> Just ... one .... more ... turn ....
> 
> 
>    - Sheldon, Shogun
> 

In article <imtpc5$i4v$1@dont-email.me>, sheldonengland@netscape.net 
says...
> 

> give it a 9.5/10.
> 
> Just ... one .... more ... turn ....
> 
> 
>    - Sheldon, Shogun


Thanks for the review, Sheldon - much appreciated.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:18:17 -0700, Sheldon England
<sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:

>Hi everybody!
>
>Released March 15th is the latest offering from Creative Assembly -- 
>Shogun 2 Total War -- the 2nd edition of their very first Total War game 
>from a decade ago. Now I have played the campaign through to my first 
>victory as Shogun and these are my rambling comments.
>
>For context, I have played all the Total War games except Napoleon (not 
>an era of interest to me).
>
>By fate I just missed Shogun even though it is one of my favourite eras. 
>The first TW game I played was Medieval, then Rome, then Medieval 2, 
>then Empire. Mid-last year advice in this forum allowed me to seek out 
>the original Shogun game which I ended up playing constantly despite the 
>age of the tech. This is in part due to countless hours of playing the 
>old Milton Bradley Gamemaster tabletop game Shogun (now discontinued). 
>The map is the same, the armies are the same, and the overall game-play 
>is the same. Suffice it to say, Shogun 2 - Total War is a game I have 
>anticipated for a decade.
>
>ob: This is a Steam-activated game so anti-steamies will want to give it 
>a miss. All the "exclusive Best Buy" perks I received seem to be for the 
>multiplayer aspect only which is a waste for me as I will not play 
>multiplayer. C'est la guerre.
>
>Comparing this game to the original is difficult because they play so 
>different. Similar theme: sengoku jidai era (time of a nation at war) 
>but now 1545 instead of 1530. The campaign map is vastly different with 
>terrain features and niceties like cherry blossoms blowing in the wind 
>or rainbows near waterfalls. I really like the initial 'fog of war' 
>where everything not discovered looks like a hand-drawn map until revealed.
>
>The old clans are still there as are several new ones. Now there are 
>navies and beach invasions! The Japanese ships are less like the 
>European ships with cannons and instead are floating platforms for 
>archers and soldiers. In fact, there are no admirals, just generals who 
>command the sea units. (The sea battles are the only aspect that bogs my 
>PC down to a crawl.) Unlike the bug in the first game, enemies will 
>invade you so don't ever leave your home base empty. No longer can you 
>instantly teleport from one end of the island(s) to the other.
>
>The economy works more like Empire. Each province has a keep and various 
>resources that can be upgraded in the usual fashion. Rice production is 
>critical as it is easy to use up all reserves and hungry people become 
>rebellious people. Some building upgrades (especially castles) require 
>significant rice available. I find the first few years a big challenge. 
>There's never enough money to go around. The enemy AI *seems* to cheat a 
>far amount in that they always seem to have half the provinces but twice 
>the armies and infrastructure. Maybe it just appears this way.
>
>Speaking of AI, it feels to me like the developers have really cranked 
>this up. At least a dozen times my cunning plan was thwarted by enemy 
>generals taking advantage of opportunities. Any game that can piss me 
>off that much yet still have me wanting to try again is a good challenge 
>in my books. It was a struggle of political, military, and 
>infrastructure balance to achieve the goal of conquering and holding 
>Kyoto for four seasons and, once done, EVERYONE declared war on me. I 
>don't consider this end-game -- just a new challenge. The fields will 
>run red with the blood of those who oppose the Chosokabe!
>
>Faction leaders have honour scores and his generals have loyalty scores. 
>They can have retainers and traits as before but you have more of a say 
>in who becomes a retainer and how his abilities grow. A general may have 
>an ambitious wife, for example, that reduces the general's loyalty and 
>increases the chance of rebellion. Otherwise armies work more or less as 
>before on the campaign map.
>
>Border towers, border forts, and shinobi have been replaced by metsuke 
>(secret police) and monks who travel around keeping the peace, spreading 
>religion, or even set up office in a particular province to keep an eye 
>on it. In the first Shogun game it wouldn't be unusual for me to have 
>dozens of shinobi spies, half a dozen ninja in key areas, and several 
>geishia. In this game you need a lot of land (and infrastucture) before 
>you have more than one of each unit. I have yet to see a geisha in the 
>game. Assassinations are possible, but also units can sabotage buildings 
>and resources. Sometimes your units are captured and imprisoned for a 
>season or two ... sometimes they are not as lucky.
>
>Foreign powers are occasionally seen as European traders (Namban) and 
>also there are half a dozen 'trade zones' surrounding Japan. By 
>occupying and defending these zones you can increase income and trade 
>silks with China, cotton with Korea, and spices and warhorses and iron 
>from various sources. Trade routes can be pirated. Sadly, you cannot 
>invade China!  :(
>
>On the tactical field maps are huge and it is so rewarding to command 
>all those little guys. Creative Assembly have this interface down to a 
>science. It feels solid yet flexible. New to Shogun are siege units. 
>These are not actually used like Asian and European devices that break 
>down walls. Instead, they are fixed in place anti-personnel devices. 
>Castle sieges on the tactical map now require the attackers to breach 
>through a series of defensive positions until they reach the donjon 
>(keep) at the inner core. In large castles this is a challenge! Fire 
>arrows help if you have learned the technique. Rivers can be forded in 
>certain places and some units can travel through woods and remain hidden 
>to sneak up on enemy flanks.
>
>I won't play the multiplayer aspect of this game because I am not an 
>online gamer per se. I play games when I have free time or the mood 
>strikes and don't see myself ever scheduling time to play a campaign 
>online. When a tactical battle is about to occur you can enable a "drop 
>in" player to take over the other side (instead of AI). By fighting many 
>of these drop-in battles you level up your "avatar" and increase his 
>abilities. You can just keep fighting battle after battle if the 
>tactical part is what you most enjoy.
>
>It goes without saying that graphically it is extremely pleasing, both 
>in campaign (turn-based) and strategic (RTS) modes. I'm really not sure 
>what they could do to improve the experience.
>
>Is Shogun 2 Total War a perfect game? No. But it sure satisfies all my 
>TW gaming needs in a fun and challenging way and will keep me pacified 
>for a few years while they (hopefully) work on Rome 2 Total War. I'll 
>give it a 9.5/10.
>
>Just ... one .... more ... turn ....
>
>
>   - Sheldon, Shogun


Darn, no strategy guide for 2. Just the first one.  I realize a bunch
of things have changed, but I wonder if the guide to the last one
would be helpful. My memory isn't the greatest, especially for complex
games like this one (plus I keep switching games).

I installed the limited edition version but the additional game
content download doesn't work.  It says to enter the registration code
in the jewelry case but installation already registered the game with
Steam.  The code on the card is not accepted.  How do I get the
additional content?

-pw

PW wrote:
>
> Darn, no strategy guide for 2. Just the first one.

Well ... the game's only been available for two weeks so it will take a 
while but I'm sure the STW community will have something available 
sooner rather than later.


> I realize a bunch
> of things have changed, but I wonder if the guide to the last one
> would be helpful.

For battle tactics, probably still mostly applies. For the campaign ... 
I would say 'no.' The games are very different. This game plays more 
like Empire TW with a twist.


> I installed the limited edition version but the additional game
> content download doesn't work.  It says to enter the registration code
> in the jewelry case but installation already registered the game with
> Steam.  The code on the card is not accepted.  How do I get the
> additional content?

For me the extra content (that is useless to me) was unlocked by 
launching Steam, then there is a link to My Games and in there is an 
option to unlock special content by entering the serial number. I don't 
recall the actual words but it was along those lines.


   - Sheldon

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:17:12 -0700, Sheldon England
<sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:

>PW wrote:
>>
>> Darn, no strategy guide for 2. Just the first one.
>
>Well ... the game's only been available for two weeks so it will take a 
>while but I'm sure the STW community will have something available 
>sooner rather than later.
>
>
>> I realize a bunch
>> of things have changed, but I wonder if the guide to the last one
>> would be helpful.
>
>For battle tactics, probably still mostly applies. For the campaign ... 
>I would say 'no.' The games are very different. This game plays more 
>like Empire TW with a twist.
>
>
>> I installed the limited edition version but the additional game
>> content download doesn't work.  It says to enter the registration code
>> in the jewelry case but installation already registered the game with
>> Steam.  The code on the card is not accepted.  How do I get the
>> additional content?
>
>For me the extra content (that is useless to me) was unlocked by 
>launching Steam, then there is a link to My Games and in there is an 
>option to unlock special content by entering the serial number. I don't 
>recall the actual words but it was along those lines.
>
>
>   - Sheldon


Thanks Shelden.  This game is so much more than I thought.  Wow. I
don't know if will ever learn enough to appreciate it.  I originally
thought it was just a turned based strategy war game.  I am not sure I
like the genre, but it will probably grow on me.

What other recent games like this do you like?  

-paul

PW wrote:
>
> This game is so much more than I thought.  Wow. I
> don't know if will ever learn enough to appreciate it.  I originally
> thought it was just a turned based strategy war game.  I am not sure I
> like the genre, but it will probably grow on me.
>
> What other recent games like this do you like?

That's a tough question to answer.

Shogun 2 is the culmination of a decade of this type of game design so 
if it is your first Total War game it probably would be overwhelming. 
The series started in 2000 and includes: Shogun, Medieval, Rome, 
Medieval Viking Expansion, Rome Barbarian Invasion Expansion, Spartan, 
Medieval 2, Medieval 2 Kingdoms, Empire, Napoleon, and now Shogun 2. I 
own and have played all but Napoleon.

You *can* play just the strategic component of the game if fighting the 
tactical battles doesn't appeal to you. I usually fight them because you 
can use experience to get better results than just letting the AI 
auto-calculate. Maybe I'm not right in the head but I very much enjoy 
commanding the troops and riding down the enemy generals.  :)

There are many wargame players who dislike the TW games because they 
dislike the RTS aspect (they feel it is a clickfest, which is not true 
because it is pausable) and because the troops do not behave 100% to 
historical accuracy. I think they are missing out.

As for similar strategic games, I also enjoy Galactic Civilisations when 
I feel the need to conquer the galaxy and Europa Universalis Rome if you 
like to micromanage. CivCity's Rome is also fun if you are into city 
building. Civilization 2-4 are also must plays -- haven't tried Civ5 yet.

Hope this helps!


   - Sheldon

In article <imtpc5$i4v$1@dont-email.me>,
Sheldon England  <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:
>This is in part due to countless hours of playing the old Milton Bradley 
>Gamemaster tabletop game Shogun (now discontinued). 

Reprinted in 1995 as "Samurai Swords", and more relevant, to be reprinted 
again this year as "Ikusa".

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/625635/reprint-info-on-shogunsamurai-swords-now-named-ik
http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/Sales/Solicitations/Ikusa_Solicitation_en_US.pdf

On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:21:37 -0700, Sheldon England
<sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:

>PW wrote:
>>
>> This game is so much more than I thought.  Wow. I
>> don't know if will ever learn enough to appreciate it.  I originally
>> thought it was just a turned based strategy war game.  I am not sure I
>> like the genre, but it will probably grow on me.
>>
>> What other recent games like this do you like?
>
>That's a tough question to answer.
>
>Shogun 2 is the culmination of a decade of this type of game design so 
>if it is your first Total War game it probably would be overwhelming. 
>The series started in 2000 and includes: Shogun, Medieval, Rome, 
>Medieval Viking Expansion, Rome Barbarian Invasion Expansion, Spartan, 
>Medieval 2, Medieval 2 Kingdoms, Empire, Napoleon, and now Shogun 2. I 
>own and have played all but Napoleon.
>
>You *can* play just the strategic component of the game if fighting the 
>tactical battles doesn't appeal to you. I usually fight them because you 
>can use experience to get better results than just letting the AI 
>auto-calculate. Maybe I'm not right in the head but I very much enjoy 
>commanding the troops and riding down the enemy generals.  :)
>
>There are many wargame players who dislike the TW games because they 
>dislike the RTS aspect (they feel it is a clickfest, which is not true 
>because it is pausable) and because the troops do not behave 100% to 
>historical accuracy. I think they are missing out.
>
>As for similar strategic games, I also enjoy Galactic Civilisations when 
>I feel the need to conquer the galaxy and Europa Universalis Rome if you 
>like to micromanage. CivCity's Rome is also fun if you are into city 
>building. Civilization 2-4 are also must plays -- haven't tried Civ5 yet.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>
>   - Sheldon


Thanks Sheldon!  I do have Civ 5 but haven't started it yet so I will
stick with that as my other strategy game.  I may be beyond the
micromanaging age ;-)

-paul

On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:21:56 -0500, Cubicle Morlock
(kgb@rawTEARDOWNTHISWALLbw.com) wrote:

>In article <imtpc5$i4v$1@dont-email.me>,
>Sheldon England  <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:
>>This is in part due to countless hours of playing the old Milton Bradley 
>>Gamemaster tabletop game Shogun (now discontinued). 
>
>Reprinted in 1995 as "Samurai Swords", and more relevant, to be reprinted 
>again this year as "Ikusa".
>
>http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/625635/reprint-info-on-shogunsamurai-swords-now-named-ik
>http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/Sales/Solicitations/Ikusa_Solicitation_en_US.pdf


Avalon Hill is still around?  I sure miss those games.  No one to play
with them now.

And Strat-O-Matic baseball!

In article <b20dp65jcuu2dsi4lptkn4h1nmcdsckebu@4ax.com>,
PW  <emailaddyinsig@ifIremember.com> wrote:
>Avalon Hill is still around?  I sure miss those games.  No one to play
>with them now.

Its old news, but Avalon Hill folded and their titles and license were
bought out by Hasbro in 1998. Hasbro only continued a couple titles,
of varying production quality (Diplomacy and Acquire in excellent
initial editions and poorer quality latter editions, History of the
World in a excellent quality but modified gameplay version), the rest 
they folded or licensed off. What they mainly did was brand the 
remaining title of the Milton Bradley Gamemaster series - Axis & Allies - 
as "Avalon Hill". And then produced numerous spin offs of that title
with the same banner.

They then produced several new and acquired titles under the same
logo. The ones of definite merit include Battle Cry, Nexus Ops, 
RoboRally, Star Wars: The Queen's Gambit, and Vegas Showdown. They also 
produced an edition of Cosmic Encounter, with excellent production 
values, but it was poorly recieved from a gameplay perspective. Fantasy 
Flight Games since produced the game, with much higher regard.

So the old Avalon Hill of the hex and counter era is gone, and they
are sorely missed. The new Avalon Hill is basically an old name
branding what is effectively a continuation of the style of games
from Milton Bradley's Gamemaster series of the 80s (and arguably the 
American Heritage series of the 60s). As much as the demise of Avalon 
Hill and many of its titles is lamentable, I can think of worse game 
lines to have their name associated with. Several high quality, 
excellent gameplay titles (admittedly of a much more beer & pretzels, 
toss a lot of dice variety) have been born under the new banner.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/4871/avalon-hill-hasbro
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/5/avalon-hill

On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 23:35:03 -0500, Cubicle Morlock
(kgb@rawTEARDOWNTHISWALLbw.com) wrote:

>In article <b20dp65jcuu2dsi4lptkn4h1nmcdsckebu@4ax.com>,
>PW  <emailaddyinsig@ifIremember.com> wrote:
>>Avalon Hill is still around?  I sure miss those games.  No one to play
>>with them now.
>
>Its old news, but Avalon Hill folded and their titles and license were
>bought out by Hasbro in 1998. Hasbro only continued a couple titles,
>of varying production quality (Diplomacy and Acquire in excellent
>initial editions and poorer quality latter editions, History of the
>World in a excellent quality but modified gameplay version), the rest 
>they folded or licensed off. What they mainly did was brand the 
>remaining title of the Milton Bradley Gamemaster series - Axis & Allies - 
>as "Avalon Hill". And then produced numerous spin offs of that title
>with the same banner.
>
>They then produced several new and acquired titles under the same
>logo. The ones of definite merit include Battle Cry, Nexus Ops, 
>RoboRally, Star Wars: The Queen's Gambit, and Vegas Showdown. They also 
>produced an edition of Cosmic Encounter, with excellent production 
>values, but it was poorly recieved from a gameplay perspective. Fantasy 
>Flight Games since produced the game, with much higher regard.
>
>So the old Avalon Hill of the hex and counter era is gone, and they
>are sorely missed. The new Avalon Hill is basically an old name
>branding what is effectively a continuation of the style of games
>from Milton Bradley's Gamemaster series of the 80s (and arguably the 
>American Heritage series of the 60s). As much as the demise of Avalon 
>Hill and many of its titles is lamentable, I can think of worse game 
>lines to have their name associated with. Several high quality, 
>excellent gameplay titles (admittedly of a much more beer & pretzels, 
>toss a lot of dice variety) have been born under the new banner.
>
>http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/4871/avalon-hill-hasbro
>http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/5/avalon-hill


Thanks!  How do you  know all that?  Impressive.

-pw

In article <0akep6pgmeovfhgu8s21oqlldm8has6mo2@4ax.com>,
PW  <emailaddyinsig@ifIremember.com> wrote:
>Thanks!  How do you  know all that?  Impressive.

Long time board gamer, owner and player of most of the games mentioned,
with a bit of knowledge of what happened and a habit of using the usual 
fallback of Googling for the details I might mis-remember. As in most
areas, there are hard core enthusiasts and industry insiders who can
give the really impressive (or juicy) details, especially in regards to
things like a company of Avalon Hill's stature going down (and that story
in particular is a sordid and controversial one, involving a well known 
video game company). I'm not one of those people.

I'm just a fan on the sidelines, paying half-attention to the buzzing
of gossip and news flies, and spouting what little trivia stuck in my
fickle brain.

kgb@rawTEARDOWNTHISWALLbw.com wrote:
>
> ... to be reprinted again this year as "Ikusa".
>
> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/625635/reprint-info-on-shogunsamurai-swords-now-named-ik
> http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/Sales/Solicitations/Ikusa_Solicitation_en_US.pdf

Thanks for the heads up. You just made me and my friends very happy. A 
deadbeat made off with my copy of Shogun fifteen years ago and we are 
all jonesing to play. I mentioned the new game this weekend while we 
were playing A&A classic.

Hoo-ray!  :)


   - Sheldon

kgb@rawTEARDOWNTHISWALLbw.com wrote:
>
> So the old Avalon Hill of the hex and counter era is gone, and they
> are sorely missed.

Stubborn folk like my cousins, friends and I still play some of the old 
Avalon Hill games, especially Squad Leader (the smaller scenarios) and 
Afrika Korps.

Ah, the childhood memories.  :)


   - Sheldon

On 30 Mar 2011 04:58:23 GMT, John Doe wrote:


> 
> Unless you have mentioned this... Making the game playable on
> low-end systems would improve the experience. That comes to my
> mind when you mention graphics and the experience in the same
> paragraph. 

I have a fairly high end system and the 3D batles run great but the
strategic campaing map is shit. I had to turn down options and enable Vsync
just for the strat map part of the game, that is really backwards thinking
on their part to make the strat map more demanding than the 3D battles.
Idiots.