🚀 go-pugleaf

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hubm3l$esh$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> http://news.gotgame.com/shogun-2-total-war-announced/41570/
>
> Oh sure ... I literally just received my package from the U.K. containing 
> Shogun: Total War because I really wanted to play this older game. Haven't 
> even installed it yet.
>
> I am so happy to see this game will be updated with their newer complexity 
> and graphics. To heck with Napoleon, I want to rule Japan!
>
>
>   - Sheldon

>>From IGN:

"One particularly novel development is the introduction of hero units. These 
are warriors who have perfected a fighting art and can carve their way 
through enemy armies without much trouble at all. Based on mythologized 
historical figures like the warrior monk Benkei, hero units are a nearly 
unstoppable force on the battlefield, capable of holding bridge crossings 
against entire armies, or smashing through a battle line to engage the enemy 
general. You can counter heroes with the right tactics, such as filling them 
full of arrows, or by having your own hero units engage them in duels. The 
development team may even consider letting players use political 
manipulation to sway heroes away from each other. "

<sigh>

Heros.  Who are 'mythologized historical' figures'.  Who are 'a unstoppable 
force' who can 'smash through a battle line'.

<sigh>

I'm sorry, but it sounds more like the mythological accounts of the trojan 
war than the unification of Japan.  Or any bog-standard button-smashing 
action game.  Oh well, I didn't buy Empire.  I didn't buy Napoleon.  And I 
didn't die.  Guess I'll be okay.

<shrug>

The game won't be released for quite awhile.  So I'm not passing judgement 
on something I haven't seen.  But I am not encouraged by the apparent 
catering to the ADD crowd.

-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

MJB wrote:
> 
> Heros.  Who are 'mythologized historical' figures'.  Who are 'a unstoppable 
> force' who can 'smash through a battle line'.
> 
> <sigh>

Hehe.

I had heard they did something like this with Napoleon so I kinda 
expected it. I will also wait and see how they implement it before I judge.

Truly there were legendary heroes of the Miyamoto Musashi type who could 
have affected battles -- much like an elite family member in Rome: TW -- 
but these are not individual units in that game. Civilisation IV also 
tried to incorporate heroes, as did Empire Earth.


> I'm sorry, but it sounds more like the mythological accounts of the trojan 
> war than the unification of Japan.  Or any bog-standard button-smashing 
> action game.  Oh well, I didn't buy Empire.  I didn't buy Napoleon.  And I 
> didn't die.  Guess I'll be okay.
> 
> <shrug>
> 
> The game won't be released for quite awhile.  So I'm not passing judgement 
> on something I haven't seen.  But I am not encouraged by the apparent 
> catering to the ADD crowd.

This is the way of things. You must also have some gray hairs on your head.

I figure that I got my money's worth out of Empire  when my USA 
conquered the entire world in 1830 ... but I also held off on Napoleon 
because the era just holds no appeal for me whatsoever. The naval 
battles were the biggest improvement in Empire.

Ah well ... I hold in my hands Shogun: TW fresh, from the UK and ready 
to be installed and played tonight.


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hubupk$mm3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> MJB wrote:
>> > Hehe.
>
> I had heard they did something like this with Napoleon so I kinda expected 
> it. I will also wait and see how they implement it before I judge.

You gotta understand - I've got a lot of information on the subject under 
question.  And these warlords were remarkable men in reality - no reason to 
make them into bulked-up killing machines.

>
> Truly there were legendary heroes of the Miyamoto Musashi type who could 
> have affected battles -- much like an elite family member in Rome: TW -- 
> but these are not individual units in that game. Civilisation IV also 
> tried to incorporate heroes, as did Empire Earth.

Unfortunately, it's more legend than truth.  I just hate to see the game 
move into the utter imaginary.  I also wonder about game balance - no reason 
to employ the 'crane' formation when your hero will simply carve his way 
through the enemy line without difficulty.

>> The game won't be released for quite awhile.  So I'm not passing 
>> judgement on something I haven't seen.  But I am not encouraged by the 
>> apparent catering to the ADD crowd.
>
> This is the way of things. You must also have some gray hairs on your 
> head.

Yeah - I've got some grey hairs.  But I have NO difficulty playing sci-fi or 
fantasy games.

>
> I figure that I got my money's worth out of Empire  when my USA conquered 
> the entire world in 1830 ... but I also held off on Napoleon because the 
> era just holds no appeal for me whatsoever. The naval battles were the 
> biggest improvement in Empire.

Considering a third of my yearly income is dependant upon the historical 
Napoleon and his campaigns - you'd have think I'd be more interested.  But I 
wasn't go to get involved with steam - so I passed.

>
> Ah well ... I hold in my hands Shogun: TW fresh, from the UK and ready to 
> be installed and played tonight.

Good luck.  I hope it lives-up to your expectations.  I enjoyed it.


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

In article <hubupk$mm3$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
sheldonengland@netscape.net says...
> 
> 
> This is the way of things. You must also have some gray hairs on your head.


Any hairs would be good here, gray, grey or otherwise.   :)

> Ah well ... I hold in my hands Shogun: TW fresh, from the UK and ready 
> to be installed and played tonight.
> 
>

Please let us know how you find it.

Angus wrote:
> Sheldon England wrote:
> >
> > I hold in my hands Shogun: TW fresh, from the UK and ready 
> > to be installed and played tonight.
> 
> Please let us know how you find it.

So close and yet so far. I believe my PC and hardware may be too new to 
play it, alas.

It installed no problem. I was hoping I could just install STW without 
the Mongol Invasion but this is the Gold version and both are installed.

I could play the five tutorials no problem. :)

So I started a campaign with the easiest clan (Kyushu territories) and 
played a couple turns, improving my lands, adding a couple buildings, 
purchasing some troops, moving my emissary and troops into position.

Then a neighbour sent an emissary to talk to me. The Throne Room 
appeared briefly then the game crashed to desktop. Something about 
debugging software installed. I did some research and learned this had 
to do with some Nero codecs so I applied the workaround (change the 
names) and it seemed to fix the issue.

I also saw several posts saying that STW would only work at 800 x 600 
but this didn't work for my ATI card. I tried a few others and 1024 x 
768 seemed to work best.

So I started a campaign again and was able to see the emissaries visit 
in the throne room and all seemed to be good. I am a friendly lord and 
made alliances with both. Then I was sitting in my throne room ... and 
sitting there ... I thought after our negotiations were done I would see 
a "conclude discussions" or similar check box but there was none.

I noticed the map of Japan in the foreground and that I could "examine" 
territories by mousing over them. I tried clicking on my own territory, 
assuming this would take me back to the campaign map. The screen went 
black. I could hear the background music and effects but could see 
nothing. I waited ... I waited ... I clicked randomly ... I waited ...

After a few minutes I used the Task Manager to shut the game down.

:(

My PC is a fast dual core and my graphic card is less than a few months 
old ... but I am still running XP SP3 so I hoped for the best.

C'est la guerre. I guess I have to wait until late 2011 to see what the 
Creative Assembly can do for me and my Shogun fix. It's crazy to see all 
the posters on the TW forums crying because they want Rome 2 first. I 
still play Rome and it's pretty good as is.


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hujgjj$1ei$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> My PC is a fast dual core and my graphic card is less than a few months 
> old ... but I am still running XP SP3 so I hoped for the best.
>
> C'est la guerre. I guess I have to wait until late 2011 to see what the 
> Creative Assembly can do for me and my Shogun fix. It's crazy to see all 
> the posters on the TW forums crying because they want Rome 2 first. I 
> still play Rome and it's pretty good as is.
>
>
>   - Sheldon

I don't know anything about dual-cores.  I'm still limping along with a 
single-core system myself.  But I do recall a particular thread:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/35137/t/Shogun-and-Windows-XP-Enough.html

Maybe you'll find the solution to your problem here, maybe you won't.  But 
perhaps there is a way to make your dual-core processor use only a single 
core when playing Shogun?  Just something to consider.


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

MJB wrote:
> 
> I don't know anything about dual-cores.  I'm still limping along with a 
> single-core system myself.  But I do recall a particular thread:
> 
> http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/35137/t/Shogun-and-Windows-XP-Enough.html
> 
> Maybe you'll find the solution to your problem here, maybe you won't.  But 
> perhaps there is a way to make your dual-core processor use only a single 
> core when playing Shogun?  Just something to consider.

Hmmm ... one of the posts there mentions a similar issue is solved by 
removing the poems. Apparently the dying lords recite a poem upon their 
demise? The last time I attempted the game it ended after I conquered 
the last Mori province so maybe I killed the daimyo and triggered that 
file and it locked up the game.

It's worth a try.

Thanks again.


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:huluf9$s14$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> MJB wrote:
>>
>> I don't know anything about dual-cores.  I'm still limping along with a 
>> single-core system myself.  But I do recall a particular thread:
>>
>> http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/35137/t/Shogun-and-Windows-XP-Enough.html
>>
>> Maybe you'll find the solution to your problem here, maybe you won't. 
>> But perhaps there is a way to make your dual-core processor use only a 
>> single core when playing Shogun?  Just something to consider.
>
> Hmmm ... one of the posts there mentions a similar issue is solved by 
> removing the poems. Apparently the dying lords recite a poem upon their 
> demise? The last time I attempted the game it ended after I conquered the 
> last Mori province so maybe I killed the daimyo and triggered that file 
> and it locked up the game.
>
> It's worth a try.
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>   - Sheldon

Damn - I'm being a right-helpful lil' bastard, ain't I?  Must be because my 
friends say I live in 'great white north' too - and my nearest professional 
football team is the Calgary stampeders...

<grin>

Good luck - I do hope you're able to make it work, at least just a little. 
I enjoyed the total war franchise right up through Rome - I enjoyed Medieval 
total war 2, but not nearly as much as the first three games (and their 
expansions).


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

On the 8 Jun 2010, Sheldon England <sheldonengland@netscape.net> 
wrote:

> MJB wrote:

<snip>

>> Maybe you'll find the solution to your problem here, maybe you won't.  But
>> perhaps there is a way to make your dual-core processor use only a single
>> core when playing Shogun?  Just something to consider.

I recall hearing about a few games that didn't like multi-core 
processors or even multi-threading. On XP, you can configure the cores 
a game runs on thusly:-

When the game is running, hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE to bring up Task 
Manager.

Click on the Processes tab and highlight the one for your game (you 
can also do that by highlighting the game in the Applications tab and 
choosing Go To Process).

Bring up the right-click menu and choose Set Affinity.

Deselect all but one of the CPUs (on a multi-core processor, each 
entry is one core).

Hit OK, and your game should now be running on a single processor 
core.

I can't remember a way of permanently configuring this so you'll have 
to do it each time you load the game. Also, the method may be 
different on Vista or Win7.

> Hmmm ... one of the posts there mentions a similar issue is solved by
> removing the poems. Apparently the dying lords recite a poem upon their
> demise? The last time I attempted the game it ended after I conquered
> the last Mori province so maybe I killed the daimyo and triggered that
> file and it locked up the game.

AFAIR, you also got poems on a season change as well. I liked them, 
added to the atmosphere of the game.

Been a long time since I've played Shogun, and that was on Windows 95 
OSR2 so I'm not really able to comment on getting it to run on newer 
OSs.

I remember being shocked that a full install was 1GB, it was the first 
game I'd ever owned that wanted that much space. At the time, I had 
3.2GB and 10GB hard drives in the machine and had to uninstall a few 
games before I could get it running!

HTH.

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

MJB wrote:
> 
> Damn - I'm being a right-helpful lil' bastard, ain't I? 

I'm afraid so.


> Must be because my 
> friends say I live in 'great white north' too - and my nearest professional 
> football team is the Calgary stampeders...

I grew up in Calgary but have lived in Vancouver for the last 24 years. 
You don't have to shovel rain.  :p


> Good luck - I do hope you're able to make it work, at least just a little. 
> I enjoyed the total war franchise right up through Rome - I enjoyed Medieval 
> total war 2, but not nearly as much as the first three games (and their 
> expansions).

I think the poems removal has resolved matters. The game still locks up 
on exit but as long as I save the game frequently I seem to be able to 
play.

I am still getting to know the game but am definitely enjoying the 
differences between it and the others in the TW series. The higher 
ground is much more prevalent, the honour system is fun, retreating to 
castles ... very nice. My first empire has grown and my family and lands 
  have expanded ... and I am totally paranoid about a ninja attack 
against my lord. I have so much to learn.

A big challenge for me is that the controls are backward on the tactical 
maps. To move a group I left click instead of right click. To arrange 
the line I left click and drag instead of right click. I keep trying to 
select units by left clicking on them and having my previously selected 
units move there. It took me a while to figure out how to retrain units 
and I now realize how dependent on the mouse zoom and keyboard shortcuts 
I had become. I must do some online research regarding units and 
upgrades and how to select certain types of units, etc. So many questions.

It's funny, I have tons of still-to-be-played latest PC game releases 
but I can already tell this ten year old game is about to become my main 
time-sink of the next several months.

Thanks again!


   - Sheldon

Graham Thurlwell wrote:
> 
> AFAIR, you also got poems on a season change as well. I liked them, 
> added to the atmosphere of the game.

Removing the poems has done the trick. Tonight I will try to re-enable 
the throne room to see if I can at least keep that aspect.

I hope I am not missing too much by removing the poems -- atmosphere in 
a game like this is as important to me as chasing down the enemy general 
after a battle.  :)


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:huoiep$74f$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> Graham Thurlwell wrote:
>>
>> AFAIR, you also got poems on a season change as well. I liked them, added 
>> to the atmosphere of the game.
>
> Removing the poems has done the trick. Tonight I will try to re-enable the 
> throne room to see if I can at least keep that aspect.
>
> I hope I am not missing too much by removing the poems -- atmosphere in a 
> game like this is as important to me as chasing down the enemy general 
> after a battle.  :)
>
>
>   - Sheldon

I think - if my memory serves - most all the poems (ie, videos) can be seen 
in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1PoGflHOiI

I can't vouch for that being all of them - but I do remember each of them.

helpful lil' bastard. 

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:huoi9o$74f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> MJB wrote:
>>
>> Damn - I'm being a right-helpful lil' bastard, ain't I?
>
> I'm afraid so.

Can't help it - it is in my nature to build, rather than destroy...

>
>
>> Must be because my friends say I live in 'great white north' too - and my 
>> nearest professional football team is the Calgary stampeders...
>
> I grew up in Calgary but have lived in Vancouver for the last 24 years. 
> You don't have to shovel rain.  :p

Funny that - I grew up in Montana and moved to Portland, OR for sixteen 
years.  I moved back to Montana five years ago and can really agree that you 
don't have to shovel rain...

>
> I think the poems removal has resolved matters. The game still locks up on 
> exit but as long as I save the game frequently I seem to be able to play.

Good to hear - the FMV poems are an issue sometimes.

>
> I am still getting to know the game but am definitely enjoying the 
> differences between it and the others in the TW series. The higher ground 
> is much more prevalent, the honour system is fun, retreating to castles 
> ... very nice. My first empire has grown and my family and lands have 
> expanded ... and I am totally paranoid about a ninja attack against my 
> lord. I have so much to learn.

Like I said earlier, Shogun TW is perhaps the most historically accurate of 
the TW series IMO.  And ninja-attack paranoia is entirely justifed.  As is 
Geisha -attack paranoia...

>
> A big challenge for me is that the controls are backward on the tactical 
> maps. To move a group I left click instead of right click. To arrange the 
> line I left click and drag instead of right click. I keep trying to select 
> units by left clicking on them and having my previously selected units 
> move there. It took me a while to figure out how to retrain units and I 
> now realize how dependent on the mouse zoom and keyboard shortcuts I had 
> become. I must do some online research regarding units and upgrades and 
> how to select certain types of units, etc. So many questions.

Yeah, but they are the GOOD kind of questions.  Questions about gameplay are 
better than questions about hardware compatibilites and work-arounds.

>
> It's funny, I have tons of still-to-be-played latest PC game releases but 
> I can already tell this ten year old game is about to become my main 
> time-sink of the next several months.

It is a beauty.  A little rough-around the edges and shows it's age 
sometimes.  But it is as pure a strategy game as the TW series ever 
generated.  Glad that everything is finally working-out to your advantage 
and that you will enjoy the game as much as everybody else who got to play 
it years ago did.


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

In article <hujgjj$1ei$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
sheldonengland@netscape.net says...
> 
> Angus wrote:
> > Sheldon England wrote:
> > >


Thanks for the interesting decription, Sheldon - sorry you didn't have 
more luck getting the game stable.

> My PC is a fast dual core and my graphic card is less than a few 
months 
> old ... but I am still running XP SP3 so I hoped for the best.
> 

I'm on a slightly older but si,ilar set-up. I spend t some time recently 
trying to get I-War (an old space game) to run, and it pretty much does. 
Is there software you can use to slow down your cpu, and restrict all 
the advanced features of your graphics card? I don't know a lot about 
it, but I would have thought thousands have trod this path in the forums 
you mentioned.




> C'est la guerre. I guess I have to wait until late 2011 to see what the 
> Creative Assembly can do for me and my Shogun fix. It's crazy to see all 
> the posters on the TW forums crying because they want Rome 2 first. I 
> still play Rome and it's pretty good as is.
> 


Yes, it was the "shiny" appearance of Rome that left me slightly 
disappointed with the visuals in Shogun. If Shogun used a similar 
graphics engine to Rome, and was stable, I'd have no problems with it. 

Angus wrote:
> 
> it was the "shiny" appearance of Rome that left me slightly 
> disappointed with the visuals in Shogun. If Shogun used a similar 
> graphics engine to Rome, and was stable, I'd have no problems with it. 

You know ... this doesn't bother me at all. I have now played much more 
of STW and quickly forgotten the polish and details afforded by even 
newer than Rome TW games like Empire. Truly, I can't wait to see what 
they do with STW2 and the new graphics but it is the campaign and 
atmosphere of STW that appeals to me so much.

Once I get over the pesky 'crash to desktop' bug I will be a happy daimyo.


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hv8g0u$3vt$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Angus wrote:
>>
>> it was the "shiny" appearance of Rome that left me slightly disappointed 
>> with the visuals in Shogun. If Shogun used a similar graphics engine to 
>> Rome, and was stable, I'd have no problems with it.
>
> You know ... this doesn't bother me at all. I have now played much more of 
> STW and quickly forgotten the polish and details afforded by even newer 
> than Rome TW games like Empire. Truly, I can't wait to see what they do 
> with STW2 and the new graphics but it is the campaign and atmosphere of 
> STW that appeals to me so much.
>
> Once I get over the pesky 'crash to desktop' bug I will be a happy daimyo.
>
>
>   - Sheldon

I looked this problem over and I can't duplicate it on my win98 machine - my 
winXP machine runs a Nivida 8600 VC and shogun won't run properly at all.  I 
do recall that much earlier I had advised you to NOT install the Mongol 
Invasion until after you had played some of the original game.  Perhaps its 
time to update the engine with whatever the Mongol Invasion added and see 
(hope?) if that might not solve your problem?  As well as create most 
probably entirely new problems?

<weak grin>

Beyond that, I have reached the limits of my knowledge...


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

MJB wrote:
> 
> I looked this problem over and I can't duplicate it on my win98 machine - my 
> winXP machine runs a Nivida 8600 VC and shogun won't run properly at all.  I 
> do recall that much earlier I had advised you to NOT install the Mongol 
> Invasion until after you had played some of the original game.  Perhaps its 
> time to update the engine with whatever the Mongol Invasion added and see 
> (hope?) 

I recall your advice in this regard. Mine is the Gold version in which 
both are already combined on installation. I did not have the option of 
installing just the STW game without the MI expansion.


> if that might not solve your problem?  As well as create most 
> probably entirely new problems?
> 
> <weak grin>
> 
> Beyond that, I have reached the limits of my knowledge...

Fear not. Your help has already been immense and valuable.

I took my problem onto the STW forums and a kind soul there offered to 
examine my saved game. He determined that the problem had to do with 
units that I had queued up for retraining in Satsuma. By canceling the 
retraining I was indeed able to carry on -- even able to try the 
retraining again after the 'end turn' and it works. Why this was a CTD 
cause and/or why it fixed the issue are beyond me. But I am back in 
action as the scourge of Japan.

I also happened to catch some screenshots from the upcoming STW2 while I 
was there on the TW site ... very purdy.

Thanks for your post!


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hvb83h$gge$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> MJB wrote:
>>
>> I looked this problem over and I can't duplicate it on my win98 machine - 
>> my winXP machine runs a Nivida 8600 VC and shogun won't run properly at 
>> all.  I do recall that much earlier I had advised you to NOT install the 
>> Mongol Invasion until after you had played some of the original game. 
>> Perhaps its time to update the engine with whatever the Mongol Invasion 
>> added and see (hope?)
>
> I recall your advice in this regard. Mine is the Gold version in which 
> both are already combined on installation. I did not have the option of 
> installing just the STW game without the MI expansion.

Ahh - I have the Warlord edition which allows you to have to option.  So 
that explains the difference, I suppose.

>
>
>> if that might not solve your problem?  As well as create most probably 
>> entirely new problems?
>>
>> <weak grin>
>>
>> Beyond that, I have reached the limits of my knowledge...
>
> Fear not. Your help has already been immense and valuable.

I have to admit that I found Shogun - at least on my machine(s) - to be 
rock-solid.  I remember some slowness with the loading screens on my win95 
machine, but I don't recall any instability at all.  So your problem(s) were 
quite new to my experience.

>
> I took my problem onto the STW forums and a kind soul there offered to 
> examine my saved game. He determined that the problem had to do with units 
> that I had queued up for retraining in Satsuma. By canceling the 
> retraining I was indeed able to carry on -- even able to try the 
> retraining again after the 'end turn' and it works. Why this was a CTD 
> cause and/or why it fixed the issue are beyond me. But I am back in action 
> as the scourge of Japan.

You sound like a happy camper, Sheldon.  Glad to hear that everything is 
FINALLY working-out to your advantage.

>
> I also happened to catch some screenshots from the upcoming STW2 while I 
> was there on the TW site ... very purdy.

It will be lovely - but all the latest TW products have been luverly. 
That's not been the issue IMHO - the issue has been realism and gameplay. 
Too many cartoony / juvenile things seemed to have sneaked into the latest 
TW games for me to take 'em too seriously any more.  Which is sort of a 
shame, I suppose.

>
> Thanks for your post!

Thanks for sharing the issue and the solution.  I never had such a problem - 
I suppose because I never had enough troops to bother with re-training. 
Just keep feeding 'em into the grinder and recruiting more heros of the 
motherland... that's MY usual strategy.  Me and Joseph Stalin, I guess.

-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/

MJB wrote:
> 
> I never had such a problem - 
> I suppose because I never had enough troops to bother with re-training. 
> Just keep feeding 'em into the grinder and recruiting more heros of the 
> motherland... that's MY usual strategy.  Me and Joseph Stalin, I guess.

Hehe. Fair enough, comrade.

I retrain when possible so that I can keep some of the battle experience 
as they go. It gets 'watered down' the more you do it but 5 experienced 
soldiers can be worth 100 inexperienced troops. In later TW games you 
can also gain better armor or weapon quality by retraining. I am still 
new to STW so I'm not sure if it applies here too yet.

A question: I have read online that it is a good idea to keep troops in 
every territory to prevent free rides and stop rampaging armies and to 
keep provincial morale high. In other TW games I always have 3 or 4 
garrisoned militia-type troops per province. Yet in STW it seems the 
castles and watchtowers already have built-in troops ... and the cost of 
army maintenance could get up there even for simple ashigaru. Also, I 
seem to have no problems with morale so far, even without using shinobi. 
Do you keep troops and or shinobi in all your provinces?

Another question: Don't ninja perform counter-ninja defense? My 
emissaries are getting skewered left, right and centre and even placing 
up to three 'defensive' ninja in the same enemy province does not seem 
to help.


   - Sheldon

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:hvdn32$lj3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> MJB wrote:
>>
>> I never had such a problem - I suppose because I never had enough troops 
>> to bother with re-training. Just keep feeding 'em into the grinder and 
>> recruiting more heros of the motherland... that's MY usual strategy.  Me 
>> and Joseph Stalin, I guess.
>
> Hehe. Fair enough, comrade.

I pretty routinely play Russians in all other periods, anyway.  The same 
strategy generally applies...

>
> I retrain when possible so that I can keep some of the battle experience 
> as they go. It gets 'watered down' the more you do it but 5 experienced 
> soldiers can be worth 100 inexperienced troops. In later TW games you can 
> also gain better armor or weapon quality by retraining. I am still new to 
> STW so I'm not sure if it applies here too yet.

I recognize that.  But in general - in the games I've played - I've either 
been on the defense, trying to get as many troops into the battle-line as 
possible or I'm on the offensive against a reeling enemy, where quantity 
matters much more than quality.

>
> A question: I have read online that it is a good idea to keep troops in 
> every territory to prevent free rides and stop rampaging armies and to 
> keep provincial morale high. In other TW games I always have 3 or 4 
> garrisoned militia-type troops per province. Yet in STW it seems the 
> castles and watchtowers already have built-in troops ... and the cost of 
> army maintenance could get up there even for simple ashigaru. Also, I seem 
> to have no problems with morale so far, even without using shinobi. Do you 
> keep troops and or shinobi in all your provinces?

I always kept troops in each province.  But that might just be me.  I don't 
recall the costs of maintenance to be particularly onorous - but then again, 
they were pretty badly-trained  <grin>

>
> Another question: Don't ninja perform counter-ninja defense? My emissaries 
> are getting skewered left, right and centre and even placing up to three 
> 'defensive' ninja in the same enemy province does not seem to help.

I never used ninjas for counter-espionage work.  Strictly offensive for me. 
So I have to admit ignorance on what a defensive ninja is expected to 
accomplish.

Sounds like your're having big fun.  Glad to hear that everything is working 
for you as well as can be expected with a ten year old game.


-- 
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/