🚀 go-pugleaf

David Ralph (dra...@random.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
: Hello fellow RPG'ers. Here's your chance to give you're opinion on the 
: game Pagan: Ultima 8. Here's what I think.

: No sir, I don't like it.  Super mario Ultima just isn't a good game. No 
: party, that's the biggest rot, and the training system sucks. In my 
: opinion, it is not an Ultima game. How could Lord British do such a thing?

The funky mushrooms were cool, though.


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David Ralph (dra...@random.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
> Hello fellow RPG'ers. Here's your chance to give you're opinion on the 
> game Pagan: Ultima 8. Here's what I think.

> No sir, I don't like it.  Super mario Ultima just isn't a good game. No 
> party, that's the biggest rot, and the training system sucks. In my 
> opinion, it is not an Ultima game. How could Lord British do such a thing?

Ok, I'll divide my opinion into two halves - the first is reply-ish to
your comments :

Super Mario Ultima : I agree. Having physical puzzles like that is a
good thing, but having them with a system where it takes about 2 mins.
to save a game, and one slip can kill you - uuhh. Anyway, the isometric
interface isn't the best system to accurately see your actual position
in relation to the stepping stones or whatever. Perhaps, if the water
and lava weren't instantly lethal - (I.E, you could skip some stupid parts
of the leaping and jumping, losing only some hit points).

No Party - Well, a drawback, but I do not think that it completely ruins
the game. Partying in computer RPGs is not a big sensation. There can be
some good moments with comments from the party members, but I, for
example, got awfully fed up with my motley crew in U7. Dropping them
out of party for example when entering the generators, joining them
again and stuff... In Serpent Isle, I once managed to be foolish enough
to click on the 'belongings' dialog option and replying 'yes'. I spent
a good thirty minutes rearranging the inventories... 

Bad Training - Well, as I see it, training through experience alone is
a good system. The only failure in it was that you could hack empty
air for an hour or so and gain full strength and dexterity... why
couldn't they base it on monsters slain ? Intelligence trains well
enough, through the use of spells, but that also could be cheated around
by readind, f.e, 'Uses of Mushrooms' 100 times in a row.

Now, I understand most of the criticism against U8, but some people seem
to hate it beyond all reason. That brings me to part 2 in my two-part
reply - my personal opinions about the aspects of U8 not discussed
above - pros and cons coming, now :

Isometric - I've also seen this being referred to as 'ochtathonal' (no-one
seems to know the exact spelling). I call it isometric. That is a part
of U8 that does look nice, d'znt it ? It is a definite visual plus in 
the game. This has it's downsides - losing objects behind scenery, 
being unable to accurately aim your jumps (or some spells). The 3d-
system also has some major bugs - walking through walls into nowhere,
falling through roofs... climbing out from pits by building piles of
objects is a true bore. The esthetics won this time - it looks good,
but it doesn't always work.

Sound - No complaints about the music - on a wavetable card they sound
excellent. FX is adequate. Speech quality varies - the 'swell special
effects' inserted into the Titan monologues in some sections make the
speech very nearly unintelligible (Pyros is clearest, Stratos and Hydros
the worst. Guardian is the same sweet-tongue as ever). And, you can't 
have text and speech, its one or the other.

Plot - The plot as a plot is good (IMHO). Strong story, if a little
depressing at parts (quote from the Quotes Section : "This is Pagan, no-one
is happy here !"). Linear, very linear. It irritates me, but does not turn
me off completely. Even non-linearity can be taken to extremes.

Ye Magic System - I love it. I do. Necromancer spells are rather lame,
but theurgist is delectably simple, although you won't have the benefit
of their spells after you steal the Air symbol from Stratos. Sorcerers
RULE ! The method of building the spells is complex, but the spells
and the way you pre-make them into a talisman are awesome. I think I
should change my dragon name to 'Conflagaration'.

Monsters - Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only 10 types of critters
in the game : ghouls, ghosts, changelings, skeletons, trolls, daemons, kiths,
golems, seekers and all the annoyance creatures like mandrils and spiders,
which you can simply walk over (Way to GO, skeletons & daemons ! I think 
those two are the only monsters which have made an appearance in every 
Ultima (trolls may be a third). 8,5 games already and still going strong !). 
Anyway, the variations of enemies are not real numerous. They'll do, but 
only just, considering that ghouls, kiths, trolls and golems are all too
slow for any sensible Avatar to risk his life fighting against them.

Endgame - Wow. Was that it ? Yep, he gets into a funny costume and does
a dance in front of the Guardian. Was this a mistake from Origin ? I
think they meant U9 to take place in Kerava (the name of Guardian's
homeworld). |:-))       According to the rumours I've been listening,
U9 will occur in Britannia, supposedly due to negative feedback on
Pagan. Did Origin change this ? Well, I for one am ecstatic to hear
that U9 will be back in the old haunts - since the end of Serpent Isle,
I've been dying to know what's happened back there.

But as the times pass - we will soon find out.

Well, that's it. You've just read my review of U8:Pagan. It had style, it
had mood - was it up to any good ? I must say that it is a good game.
Not great, by no means perfect, but an enjoyable game as a whole. Remember - 
You don't have to play a bad game, even if it's an Ultima, and Pagan
still ranks into my top-30-of-recent-years-as-my-memory-can-recall.

        Walk in Virtue !

                Stonegate Dragon
                  -==(UDIC)==-

**************************************************************
*     J.H.L - Jussi H. Lehtinen (leht...@atki.helbp.fi)     *
**************************************************************
*   Of these things, I know nothing, and, if asked, will     *
*                not admit to any of it.		     * 
**************************************************************

In article <3clh5u$c...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>, dra...@random.ucs.mun.ca (David Ralph) writes:
> Hello fellow RPG'ers. Here's your chance to give you're opinion on the 
> game Pagan: Ultima 8. Here's what I think.
> 
> No sir, I don't like it.  Super mario Ultima just isn't a good game. No 
> party, that's the biggest rot, and the training system sucks. In my 
> opinion, it is not an Ultima game. How could Lord British do such a thing?

I was expecting it to be VERY bad, but I got it on a whim (and it was the
only Ultima I haven't played) and guess what... I LIKE it!

Sure it is different than previous ultimas, but that doesn't mean it
is not fun.  I suppose it helps that I am playing it on a P5-90,
I can get from the middle Tenenbrae warp to the cemetary in about
1 minute or so (not even).  Save/Restores take about 10 seconds (very handy for
jumping puzzles...)  Speaking of the jumping puzzles, most of the
jump puzzles that HAVE to be done (ie: finding that big stone guy, just
before the pilgramage) can be walked around!  So they weren't really that
tough at all!

Sure it is a departure from the old Ultima games, maybe they should have
had this be a World of Ultima game, instead of Ultima VIII, but it
is still a very fun game...IMHO of course.

Kevin

ka...@birch003.cray.com (Kevin Kramer) writes:


>In article <3clh5u$c...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>, dra...@random.ucs.mun.ca (David Ralph) writes:
>> Hello fellow RPG'ers. Here's your chance to give you're opinion on the 
>> game Pagan: Ultima 8. Here's what I think.
>> 
>> No sir, I don't like it.  Super mario Ultima just isn't a good game. No 
>> party, that's the biggest rot, and the training system sucks. In my 
>> opinion, it is not an Ultima game. How could Lord British do such a thing?

>I was expecting it to be VERY bad, but I got it on a whim (and it was the
>only Ultima I haven't played) and guess what... I LIKE it!

>Sure it is different than previous ultimas, but that doesn't mean it
>is not fun.  I suppose it helps that I am playing it on a P5-90,
>I can get from the middle Tenenbrae warp to the cemetary in about
>1 minute or so (not even).  Save/Restores take about 10 seconds (very handy for
>jumping puzzles...)  Speaking of the jumping puzzles, most of the
>jump puzzles that HAVE to be done (ie: finding that big stone guy, just
>before the pilgramage) can be walked around!  So they weren't really that
>tough at all!

>Sure it is a departure from the old Ultima games, maybe they should have
>had this be a World of Ultima game, instead of Ultima VIII, but it
>is still a very fun game...IMHO of course.

>Kevin

	Here Here! I liked it too. And I have a 'slow' 386DX40 (AMD) Funny that.
Inspite of what Ralf sez it _is_ and Ultima. So there! <insert rasberrie>


	The one key thing I have noted that has seperated those who love U8 to those
who don't was the speed. I had no stacker and a BIG chache (20 M). And a faster
bus speed than a 486-66Mhz. Trusting CPU speed alone is a disapointment waiting to
happen. Of course Pentiums are all new MB tech, and some 'good' 486's worked well.
Always gotta look close at what you buy. ;-]




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