🚀 go-pugleaf

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:54:32 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Some of you might recall that many months ago my toons were stuck on 
>'The Thunder Forge'. My dps and healing just weren't good enough to
>get through the final phase, so I'd pretty much given up.
>
>In the interim, I'd got mostly Timeless gear, fully upgraded, and
>just recently got in a couple regular raids through Openraid.org.
>This allowed me to gear up to about 560, and my dps (on both the
>destro lock and the ret/holy pally) went way up.
>
>Hearing that the cape quest would no longer be available in the
>expansion, I'm now going hell for leather to try to complete it.

Good luck! Glad I did mine once, won't bother trying for alts I think,
at least it's completed once for me :-)

>The destro lock has got through TTF, and soloed Nalak, and has
>just started working through getting Titan Runestones. Despite
>the extra buff that's supposed to raise the chances, in the first
>run through Throne of Thunder, only Lei Shen dropped one. I'm
>feeling a bit worried about getting 12 before the expansion 
>drops, but I still have to try SoO.

SoO should help, I found droprates were pretty bad, but as I
understand it, so long as you're on the chain before 6.0, then you
have until November 13th to complete it, rather than till 6.0 hits,
which gives you some extra time.

>Any suggestions? I still have to get the pally through TTF,
>but suspect I may be able to hack it now.

Should be able to with gear increase, I know my priest performs way
better since I reached 560ilvl anyway - hope you make it! :-)

On 26/09/2014 3:13 AM, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:54:32 -0500, Cryptoengineer
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> SoO should help, I found droprates were pretty bad, but as I
> understand it, so long as you're on the chain before 6.0, then you
> have until November 13th to complete it, rather than till 6.0 hits,
> which gives you some extra time.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15910699/legendary-cloak-quest-last-chance-black-prince-buff-extended-9-16-2014
http://my.mmosite.com/2528383/blog/item/wow_legendary_cloak_quest_line_gone_in_60.html

>> Any suggestions? I still have to get the pally through TTF,
>> but suspect I may be able to hack it now.
>
> Should be able to with gear increase, I know my priest performs way
> better since I reached 560ilvl anyway - hope you make it! :-)

A rule of thumb that may change with squish but it should remain the 
same proportions.
50 ilvl doubles stats more or less, depends on the allocations on gear
100 ilvl doubles it again
Dps goes up, health and mitigation increases, regeneration, hit, speed 
etc  survivability is multiplied.

Less incoming , more outgoing, more health/mana to ride spikes, more 
leeway to plan and react.
With about 1.5 seconds to react an extra 0.5 seconds means you can react 
easily rather than often not making it or noticing in time while 
micromanaging, or panicking :-).

Subjectively 50 ilvl should feel about 3-4 times better.

It would tend to exponential but then diminishing returns shaves a lot off.

On 26/09/2014 7:46 AM, | || ||| ||||| || | wrote:
> On 26/09/2014 3:13 AM, Catriona R wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:54:32 -0500, Cryptoengineer
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> SoO should help, I found droprates were pretty bad, but as I
>> understand it, so long as you're on the chain before 6.0, then you
>> have until November 13th to complete it, rather than till 6.0 hits,
>> which gives you some extra time.
>
> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15910699/legendary-cloak-quest-last-chance-black-prince-buff-extended-9-16-2014
>
> http://my.mmosite.com/2528383/blog/item/wow_legendary_cloak_quest_line_gone_in_60.html
>
>
>>> Any suggestions? I still have to get the pally through TTF,
>>> but suspect I may be able to hack it now.
>>
>> Should be able to with gear increase, I know my priest performs way
>> better since I reached 560ilvl anyway - hope you make it! :-)
>
> A rule of thumb that may change with squish but it should remain the
> same proportions.
> 50 ilvl doubles stats more or less, depends on the allocations on gear
> 100 ilvl doubles it again
> Dps goes up, health and mitigation increases, regeneration, hit, speed
> etc  survivability is multiplied.
>
> Less incoming , more outgoing, more health/mana to ride spikes, more
> leeway to plan and react.
> With about 1.5 seconds to react an extra 0.5 seconds means you can react
> easily rather than often not making it or noticing in time while
> micromanaging, or panicking :-).
>
> Subjectively 50 ilvl should feel about 3-4 times better.
>
> It would tend to exponential but then diminishing returns shaves a lot off.

If it is a dps enrage race 100 ilvl would be about 2.5 times dps, not 4 
times, diminishing returns vs exponential, it is all a bit timewimey 
wibblywobbly to distil any one accurate figure reflecting so many variables.

Den 26-09-2014 00:51, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:

> If it is a dps enrage race 100 ilvl would be about 2.5 times dps, not 4
> times, diminishing returns vs exponential, it is all a bit timewimey
> wibblywobbly to distil any one accurate figure reflecting so many
> variables.

Hmm.  When I do hc dungeons or flex raids with my 576 mage I do like 
4-6x dps and damage compared to peeps in 500-520 gear.  I know this can 
be an unfair comparison as mages are pure dps cannons when played right 
under the right circumstances.  but still.  I consider 2.5 times as a 
big underestimate.  Dps scales insanely in MoP due to the big ilvl gaps.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:12:25 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 26-09-2014 00:51, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>> If it is a dps enrage race 100 ilvl would be about 2.5 times dps, not 4
>> times, diminishing returns vs exponential, it is all a bit timewimey
>> wibblywobbly to distil any one accurate figure reflecting so many
>> variables.
>
>Hmm.  When I do hc dungeons or flex raids with my 576 mage I do like 
>4-6x dps and damage compared to peeps in 500-520 gear.  I know this can 
>be an unfair comparison as mages are pure dps cannons when played right 
>under the right circumstances.  but still.  I consider 2.5 times as a 
>big underestimate.  Dps scales insanely in MoP due to the big ilvl gaps.

Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P 

For a lower lvl, my priest was doing 25k dps at about 470ilvl, he does
over 100k now, at 560k, so 4* increase over 90 ilvls. Might work
slightly differently on healer specs, in fairness, but most stats do
help me :-)

On 26/09/2014 11:42 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 26-09-2014 00:51, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>> If it is a dps enrage race 100 ilvl would be about 2.5 times dps, not 4
>> times, diminishing returns vs exponential, it is all a bit timewimey
>> wibblywobbly to distil any one accurate figure reflecting so many
>> variables.
>
> Hmm.  When I do hc dungeons or flex raids with my 576 mage I do like
> 4-6x dps and damage compared to peeps in 500-520 gear.  I know this can
> be an unfair comparison as mages are pure dps cannons when played right
> under the right circumstances.  but still.  I consider 2.5 times as a
> big underestimate.  Dps scales insanely in MoP due to the big ilvl gaps.


They -are- very rubbery figures, a rubber thumb :-).
More of a minimum you could expect based -just- on the raw gear rather 
than maximum. I have no problem being wrong in the good direction :-)

Subject to class buffs/nerfs , instance tweaks, additional itemisation, 
the distribution of subpar ilvl slots, player organisation.
Some chars can solo prior xpac 5 man content, others can't.

576, currently, are likely more skilled at a character than a 500 and 
have invested more in top of range/most expensive gems/enchants, 
valo(u)r upgrades.

A little leeway to change rotation, or discovering a better rotation, 
can improve delivered dps drastically.
i.e. Skill is knowing how to create the right circumstances.

On 26/09/2014 11:42 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 26-09-2014 00:51, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>> If it is a dps enrage race 100 ilvl would be about 2.5 times dps, not 4
>> times, diminishing returns vs exponential, it is all a bit timewimey
>> wibblywobbly to distil any one accurate figure reflecting so many
>> variables.
>
> Hmm.  When I do hc dungeons or flex raids with my 576 mage I do like
> 4-6x dps and damage compared to peeps in 500-520 gear.  I know this can
> be an unfair comparison as mages are pure dps cannons when played right
> under the right circumstances.  but still.  I consider 2.5 times as a
> big underestimate.  Dps scales insanely in MoP due to the big ilvl gaps.

In another follow, that the server now gives me an error on so I can't 
follow it
   I said valour was an item enhancement.
That was of course wrong, it goes to ilvl.

Hopefully the squish will work and not mess things up too much.
I found this page
http://wod.wowhead.com/list
from 
http://www.wowhead.com/news=238770/guide-to-item-changes-in-warlords-of-draenor
    ... I hope it isn't a data harvester :-)
put in your char and it shows post squish stats

   Estimating the effect of +15 on +153 is a tad easier than +1547 on 
+15346 :-).

Den 26-09-2014 17:50, Catriona R skrev:

>> Hmm.  When I do hc dungeons or flex raids with my 576 mage I do like
>> 4-6x dps and damage compared to peeps in 500-520 gear.  I know this can
>> be an unfair comparison as mages are pure dps cannons when played right
>> under the right circumstances.  but still.  I consider 2.5 times as a
>> big underestimate.  Dps scales insanely in MoP due to the big ilvl gaps.
>
> Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
> the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
> assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P

Pure boost.  I easily hit 450-500k on Direbrew when I pop all CDs, hero 
+ int pot.

> For a lower lvl, my priest was doing 25k dps at about 470ilvl, he does
> over 100k now, at 560k, so 4* increase over 90 ilvls. Might work
> slightly differently on healer specs, in fairness, but most stats do
> help me :-)

I know a rogue (fully heroic geared) who has done 1.6M dps on dark 
shammys HC in SoO. :)  The issue can be adressed to dots versus the 
ridiculous scaling as most of his damage came from his dots.
I have hit ~560k dps on protectors normal in SoO _only_ by keeping my 
nether tempest dots up on all bosses and adds all the time.  A DK in my 
guild is also able to do insane damage around 6-700k dps mainly by 
keeping his diseases up in fights with loads of targets.
The Spoils boss fight in SoO can make insane dps numbers too.  Its the 
same with the three groups of trash just before Blackfuse in the same 
raid instance.

I havent done the math on it (I actually never do).  But my mage's dots 
are my main damage source at this ilvl point.  Arcane 
blast/missiles/barrage are now simple fillers which I only cast if all 
my dots are running fine.  Even in single-target fights my Living Bomb 
sometimes does around 35-40% of my overall damage.  When I was running 
around in 560-565 gear my dots maybe did 10-30% of my overall damage.

So I understand why Blizzard revises our gear's stats.  The numbers has 
gone out of control when it comes to specific spells and abilities.  And 
the legendary cloak also does its job too with the hidden stat on it 
which boosts any damage with ~10%.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

Den 26-09-2014 17:50, Catriona R skrev:
> Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
> the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
> assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P

Heh.  Just did Direbrew on my mage a few secs ago.  A hunter also did 
around 750k here.  Direbrew was down in 13 secs. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:35:17 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 26-09-2014 17:50, Catriona R skrev:
>> Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
>> the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
>> assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P
>
>Heh.  Just did Direbrew on my mage a few secs ago.  A hunter also did 
>around 750k here.  Direbrew was down in 13 secs. :)

Lol, crazy :-) I should try using my cds, always forget about them
tbh, so my dps numbers tend to be non-burst, guess I'd look less bad
if I used the cds!

Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in news:c8nt21Fsl9oU1
@mid.individual.net:

> 
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:35:17 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
> wrote:
> 
>>Den 26-09-2014 17:50, Catriona R skrev:
>>> Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
>>> the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
>>> assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P
>>
>>Heh.  Just did Direbrew on my mage a few secs ago.  A hunter also did 
>>around 750k here.  Direbrew was down in 13 secs. :)
> 
> Lol, crazy :-) I should try using my cds, always forget about them
> tbh, so my dps numbers tend to be non-burst, guess I'd look less bad
> if I used the cds!
> 

To get back to topic; my lock now has the legendary cloak. It took
two weeks to get the Titan Runestones, the rest took a couple days.
I've upgraded to to ilvl 616. Dealing with the Celestial's challenge
was the only hard part. My overall ilvl is now 562, not bad for a non
raider.

Am I right in thinking there's no special reward for the the final,
'kill Garrosh' quest? Is there an achievement?

I'll give the pally a try - he's been stuck at the Forge quest for
a very long time. But since I last tried, I've upgraded has gear,
and found out about using the three Pi'ju Brews to get dps helpers.

pt

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:53:50 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in news:c8nt21Fsl9oU1
>@mid.individual.net:
>
>> 
>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:35:17 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Den 26-09-2014 17:50, Catriona R skrev:
>>>> Yeah, I don't dungeon much but doing Direbrew on my rogue (510 ilvl)
>>>> the other day, I was doing 100k dps, one hunter did 750k... wtf lol. I
>>>> assume he was significantly high geared than me! :-P
>>>
>>>Heh.  Just did Direbrew on my mage a few secs ago.  A hunter also did 
>>>around 750k here.  Direbrew was down in 13 secs. :)
>> 
>> Lol, crazy :-) I should try using my cds, always forget about them
>> tbh, so my dps numbers tend to be non-burst, guess I'd look less bad
>> if I used the cds!
>> 
>
>To get back to topic; my lock now has the legendary cloak. It took
>two weeks to get the Titan Runestones, the rest took a couple days.
>I've upgraded to to ilvl 616. Dealing with the Celestial's challenge
>was the only hard part. My overall ilvl is now 562, not bad for a non
>raider.

Congrats! Great ilvl too, mine's 560, so about the same, likewise
non-raider (haven't even done SoO LFR much, I burned out working on
that cloak and just couldn't be bothered after that)

>Am I right in thinking there's no special reward for the the final,
>'kill Garrosh' quest? Is there an achievement?

Correct, and I don't recall any achievement for it was just a gold
reward, and a little scene in the Vale (at least, I think the scene
was the end of the cloak chain, not sure as my first Garrosh kill was
also my first with the cloak), plus a little scene with Wrathion
throwing a tantrum, which was pretty amusing :-P

>I'll give the pally a try - he's been stuck at the Forge quest for
>a very long time. But since I last tried, I've upgraded has gear,
>and found out about using the three Pi'ju Brews to get dps helpers.

Good luck, better gear will probably help a lot :-)