🚀 go-pugleaf

On 1/17/2013 10:09 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>
> It goes to show how used you can get to a role, I'm sure most people
> think DPS is the easiest role, but having run all of MSV on my druid
> earlier, it felt a lot harder for me than healing is! Granted
> familiarity probably helps but still, I felt like I was struggling
> quite badly at times and a few things tripped me up that I never even
> knew about as a healer.
>

I've run all the raids as ranged dps, and only just recently got my 
resto druid geared to heal the first two.

I can only say that I have remind myself to keep things in perspective 
when I say that healing those first two MV raids were so very easy they 
almost were boring as compared to dps'ing when I was wearing similar 
ilevel gear.  (btw  that is saying something too as it seems ranged dps 
isn't bad compared to melee - i don't know though as I haven't done it 
as melee)

I say in perspective because I understand that when I wore i460 gear on 
my mage, the instances were only a month or two old, most of the raid 
was in similar level gear, etc, etc.   Now most people know the 
instances even if on a new toon, they know the fights, plus there are 
lot of decently geared people running for valor/sigils/that one pc of 
gear they want, and the instances have been nerfed from what I heard 
they were.  I imagine it was a bit harder earlier.  But that said, I 
find myself overhealing the crap out of stuff just to stay relevant on 
the heal charts sometimes.  Many times as a resto druid, by the time I 
get my dots and other heals going, some uber geared priest has already 
healed my target and is reading the newspaper.  I get thrown in a LFR 
that has 3 well geared healers and find there isn't a whole lot to heal, 
esp on boss fights.  I find more action and use for me on trash as a) 
The uber healers back off and save themselves or something for boss 
fights (or go afk) and b) a lot more widespread damage, etc...

I'll find out as I go along healing.  There are some fights in the Heart 
of Fear that look like a bi@#ch as a healer as well as second/third 
fights in the terrace.  Dps who don't run through the light beam take a 
ton as well as the "day" phase of that fight has the raid spread way out 
dealing with the adds...The windstorm that the 3rd boss in Terrace does 
always seems to bring the entire raid down a lot....should be 
interesting when I get geared enough to heal them....

On 2013-01-18, Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> It goes to show how used you can get to a role, I'm sure most
> people think DPS is the easiest role, but having run all of MSV
> on my druid earlier, it felt a lot harder for me than healing
> is! Granted familiarity probably helps but still, I felt like I
> was struggling quite badly at times and a few things tripped me
> up that I never even knew about as a healer.

According to the raider stuff I read, good DPS is harder to find
than good tanks and good healers.

You took a hard road by choosing a Feral Druid as your first DPS,
though. The rotation takes a lot of practice, and as a melee
you're subject to all the worst boss powers.

> Seems I've got some finetuning to do on my rotaion too, Rawr
> reckons my gear will give me 47k dps with raidbuffs... heh, I
> did 35k on the fights where I wasn't having trouble and less on
> the more awkward ones, oh well. May have to get some addon to
> display savage roar a bit more in my face, tend to let it drop
> off without noticing which won't help me much. On the plus side
> I was about 10th-11th on dps most fights so not as bad as I'd
> expected tbh, maybe practice will help me (and figuring how to
> do the fights a bit better!).

I think 35k is good for actual DPS. And it's nice that you care
enough to measure it for yourself and to know what your goal is.

-- 
Neil Cerutti

On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:40:01 -0500, IYM <nor...@whitehouse.gov>
wrote:

>On 1/17/2013 10:09 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>>
>> It goes to show how used you can get to a role, I'm sure most people
>> think DPS is the easiest role, but having run all of MSV on my druid
>> earlier, it felt a lot harder for me than healing is! Granted
>> familiarity probably helps but still, I felt like I was struggling
>> quite badly at times and a few things tripped me up that I never even
>> knew about as a healer.
>>
>
>I've run all the raids as ranged dps, and only just recently got my 
>resto druid geared to heal the first two.
>
>I can only say that I have remind myself to keep things in perspective 
>when I say that healing those first two MV raids were so very easy they 
>almost were boring as compared to dps'ing when I was wearing similar 
>ilevel gear.  (btw  that is saying something too as it seems ranged dps 
>isn't bad compared to melee - i don't know though as I haven't done it 
>as melee)

Hehe persepective indeed, when I ran them they weren't so easy, with
people not knowing the fights etc :-)

>I say in perspective because I understand that when I wore i460 gear on 
>my mage, the instances were only a month or two old, most of the raid 
>was in similar level gear, etc, etc.   Now most people know the 
>instances even if on a new toon, they know the fights, plus there are 
>lot of decently geared people running for valor/sigils/that one pc of 
>gear they want, and the instances have been nerfed from what I heard 
>they were.  I imagine it was a bit harder earlier.  But that said, I 
>find myself overhealing the crap out of stuff just to stay relevant on 
>the heal charts sometimes.  Many times as a resto druid, by the time I 
>get my dots and other heals going, some uber geared priest has already 
>healed my target and is reading the newspaper.  I get thrown in a LFR 
>that has 3 well geared healers and find there isn't a whole lot to heal, 
>esp on boss fights.  I find more action and use for me on trash as a) 
>The uber healers back off and save themselves or something for boss 
>fights (or go afk) and b) a lot more widespread damage, etc...

I know where you're coming from there, I'm often top by miles on
healing meters, but I guess that's down to me having decent aoe heals
that can be effective very quickly, some fights I'm not so high on
meters but some I think druids and paladins don't even get a chance to
heal if there's a few priests in the group.

>I'll find out as I go along healing.  There are some fights in the Heart 
>of Fear that look like a bi@#ch as a healer as well as second/third 
>fights in the terrace.  Dps who don't run through the light beam take a 
>ton as well as the "day" phase of that fight has the raid spread way out 
>dealing with the adds...The windstorm that the 3rd boss in Terrace does 
>always seems to bring the entire raid down a lot....should be 
>interesting when I get geared enough to heal them....

Yeah those are a pain, Tsulong I tend to run oom on before ofc in day
phase you're supposed to be healing *him* as well as everyone else,
and while he does breath on you to give you some mana back, it's not
enough really. And the windstorm is annoying as hell, sure, you can
cast in it but prayer of healing takes too long to cast to be able to
risk so I'm reduced to circle of healing (long cd) prayer of mending
and ooming myself with renew spam. I'm going to respec and take
Cascade and see if that helps, it seems made for that fight tbh. I'm
suspecting druids may be better suited to that one than priests :-)

On 18 Jan 2013 14:19:18 GMT, Neil Cerutti <ne...@norwich.edu> wrote:

>On 2013-01-18, Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> It goes to show how used you can get to a role, I'm sure most
>> people think DPS is the easiest role, but having run all of MSV
>> on my druid earlier, it felt a lot harder for me than healing
>> is! Granted familiarity probably helps but still, I felt like I
>> was struggling quite badly at times and a few things tripped me
>> up that I never even knew about as a healer.
>
>According to the raider stuff I read, good DPS is harder to find
>than good tanks and good healers.

I can believe that, since it'll be the role most people try as
default, even if not-so-skilled.

>You took a hard road by choosing a Feral Druid as your first DPS,
>though. The rotation takes a lot of practice, and as a melee
>you're subject to all the worst boss powers.

Hehe all the more awkward because I'm not really dps at heart with
him, I prefer to be a bear. But, I hate tanking pugs, and LFR seems so
very tank dependent that there's no way I'll risk it, so I'm going as
a cat in order to get the gear to tank old raids that I'm duoing with
my bf. But that means I'm not even very good as dps, having really
only ever used cat for solo questing, despite having had that druid as
my primary alt since Burning Crusade. It does seem awkward in general
though, trying to keep up savage roar, keep rip up, and curse on add
fights because I can never get my combo points up high enough to do
much before the target dies. I guess that's a case of practice.

>> Seems I've got some finetuning to do on my rotaion too, Rawr
>> reckons my gear will give me 47k dps with raidbuffs... heh, I
>> did 35k on the fights where I wasn't having trouble and less on
>> the more awkward ones, oh well. May have to get some addon to
>> display savage roar a bit more in my face, tend to let it drop
>> off without noticing which won't help me much. On the plus side
>> I was about 10th-11th on dps most fights so not as bad as I'd
>> expected tbh, maybe practice will help me (and figuring how to
>> do the fights a bit better!).
>
>I think 35k is good for actual DPS. And it's nice that you care
>enough to measure it for yourself and to know what your goal is.

Glad it's not so terrible then! I always try to see what I should be
aiming at, rarely reach it since I just don't seem very skilled as
dps, no matter the class (I seem to do best as elemental shaman, who
have very simple ability priority...), but at least I try to not be
too useless. I was quite pleased to be around 10th on the meters, out
of 17 dps that's respectable for being new to it I guess. I'll never
get near the guys who average 70k+ though, jeez, wonder what kinda
gear I'd need to get that high.

Den 18-01-2013 15:19, Neil Cerutti skrev:

> According to the raider stuff I read, good DPS is harder to find
> than good tanks and good healers.

I'm curious as I have never played anything else than caster classes 
(lock, bally druid and mage) in raids since vanilla WoW.  So I'm quite 
lost when it comes to playstyle for healers and tanks and I just 
appreciate the great job they do.  What is a good dps? :)

-- 
Peter T.

On Jan 18, 5:39 pm, "Peter T." <pino...@hotmail.cum> wrote:
> What is a good dps? :)

When it comes to raiding, it means...

1. You know what your theoretical maximum dps should be for your class
(not your spec, but your class), for a stationary fight.
2. You can deliver 95% of the theoretical maximum for your class
against a target dummy, most of the time.
3. You do not take avoidable damage.
4. You manage to have high dps uptime, even when faced with lots of
movement.

Notice what this implies:

A. You do not care about spec.
B. You practice your rotation until it is near perfect.
C. You pay attention to your environment.
D. You know the boss mechanics.
E. You figure out how to deal damage on the move.

The vast majority of dps players never learn any of this stuff,
because they get carried.

I found that it takes about 6 months to turn a new recruit into a
veteran player who can actually pull their own weight in a top end
progression guild.

For the timed challenges, you are looking for all of the above plus
arena PvP experience, because you need good crowd control, which is a
lost art for PvE players.
--
// T.Hsu

Den 20-01-2013 00:49, Ting Hsu skrev:

[snip]
> The vast majority of dps players never learn any of this stuff,
> because they get carried.

Thanks for that list. :)

> For the timed challenges, you are looking for all of the above plus
> arena PvP experience, because you need good crowd control, which is a
> lost art for PvE players.

I agree.  But it seems like CC is finally on the rise again. :) *dusts 
off polymorph*

-- 
Peter T.

Den 20-01-2013 00:49, Ting Hsu skrev:

> 2. You can deliver 95% of the theoretical maximum for your class
> against a target dummy, most of the time.

So how do I find the theoretical maxmimum for my mage?  Simcraft? 
askmrrobot?  Other?

I checked askmrrobot which tells me I should do around 154k dps on my 
mage.  Thats a lot even for me.  With all CDs popped including Hero and 
fully raidbuffed and a int pot I do around 130-140k on single target 
bosses.  I dont see how I should be able to maintain 154k-5% for a 
longer period.  Especially not on a dummy.  but maybe this is the 
difference between me and the top notch mages. :)

-- 
Peter T.

Den 21-01-2013 00:52, Lewis skrev:

> Where does it show DPS?

Recount is your friend. :)

<http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/recount>

-- 
Peter T.

On Jan 20, 7:35 am, "Peter T." <pino...@hotmail.cum> wrote:
> So how do I find the theoretical maxmimum for my mage?  Simcraft?
> askmrrobot?  Other?

Unfortunately, I cannot help you on that one. I've been playing
Borderlands 2 lately. Looking at the old standbys, I see that MaxDPS,
Rawr, and Simcraft are all out of date.

You may have to fall back onto WorldOfLogs, looking at top end guilds,
but it is hard to judge whether differences are due to skill or gear,
when the real answer is both. There really needs to be a WorldOfLogs
equivalent for challenge mode 5 mans, as that's the only way to get an
apples to apples comparison.

> I agree.  But it seems like CC is finally on the rise again. :)
> *dusts off polymorph*

Note that there is more to CC than just polymorph. Frostjaw and frost
nova are roots, a very useful melee CC. Cone of cold, frostbomb, and
frostbolt are slows, also very useful against (untanked) melee. Thus,
a single mage could potentially have 3 different mobs CC'ed at once.
Burst kill the untanked, slowed mob (like tag team kiting), then
rotate your cooldown CC's with another player (or else go for a second
slowed kiting kill).
--
// T.Hsu