🚀 go-pugleaf

(someone or another wrote)
>One of the nice things about Thief 2 is that you can easily use it to
make
>an FM set in the Thief 1 timeframe because the necessary textures,
objects,
>AIs are all there.  That probably wasn't the easiest thing to do, but
the
>engine change and drastic increase in detail for Thief 3 probably
makes
>recreating old content a lot harder this time around.  And given that

Has anyone considered the possibility of creating an open source
renderer based on an enhanced version of T1/T2 content?  Others have
created open source renderers for certain games (prboom rendering
Doom, and at much higher quality if I remember right... plus the
CAVEQuake and other hacks) and they also give one the ability to add
in things in wishlist-style that weren't even in the original game.

>I'd hate to see FM authors forced to choose between making more
detailed
>environments and being able to populate their environments as they
wish.
>Then again, it'll probably take a little while for the Thief fanbase
as a
>whole to catch up with Thief 3's system requirements and adjust to an

Well i'm pretty impressed by what can already be done, ie - 7th
Crystal or Calendra's Legacy.  I didn't expect to see that on Thief as
it was with way more polys than the original game had and what not. 
Things can be pushed even further, but whether the renderer crashes
because of too many polygons, or if it's still stable on faster
systems i'm not sure.  And i'll still admit that it doesn't hold a
candle to whats just around the corner on the 2ghz+ geforce 4ish
systems.

BUT...  I'll make my proposal anyways.  :)  Note i'm making this up as
I write, just what i'd like to see.  ;)

OpenThief
---------
Would support Thief 1 and Thief 2 to define the worlds.
Would support ThiefExt - an additional .wad/.dat file containing
information unique to the OpenThief renderer which I made up just now.
:) (perhaps realtime lighting info or special AI or anything added to
the wishlist.)

Advantages: 
- 100% compatibility with existing tools for existing authors
- allows ANYONE to play both the shareware missions (for T1 and T2)
rendered to higher quality and most fan missions even though the discs
arent really available anymore and even if you don't have them. (and
even if they are, who cares?  The original authors aren't getting paid
for it anymore. :P)
- The shareware missions could provide all or most of the data needed
(textures, sounds) to render fan missions, so one wouldn't have to
step to shady areas of copyright to keep expanding the fan-base for a
generally unavailable game
- At some point, completely new Open textures/sounds/maybe even models
could be created.  Would give even higher quality to the original
levels (shareware or commercial) and most fan missions.
- Open source could be compiled for Mac or Linux, expanding the
fanbase even further.

Graphics:
- Rendering to 24/32 bit would be easy for a little more quality
- Adding a 'nightvision effect' would be cool (ie - the enviroment
actually rendered to say 36 bits, where jumping into shadow requires
an adjustment down in nightvision sensitivity.. and flashbombs or
jumping under a bright light obviously ruins some of that)
- Support for multihead shouldn't be difficult (maybe a CAVEThief? :)
- Adding in headtracker, wand and other support (for those who are
REALLY hardcore) would be pretty easy.  Maybe most users wouldn't use
it, but it'd be SO cool peeking around corners for real and holding a
'blackjack' for real to club ppl with.  >:)
- Support for much higher poly counts than Thief shouldn't be hard,
there are various open source renderers all over the place afterall. 
This would be the most important improvement, creating enviroments
more suited to 2ghz machines ppl are likely to get to play Thief 3
anyways.  :)

Lighting:
Adding realtime lighting algorhythms and that wouldn't be as easy...
but is not unfeasable.  Having the realtime shadows interacting with
the AI would be the most tricky part.  This would be something
requiring ThiefExt, additional data to know how to render the
enviroment in multiple situations.  BUT this wouldn't be obscenely
difficult to add to existing missions.  And even in those it wasn't
added, casting intelligent realtime shadows for existing missions is
probably still doable.

T3?
Adding T3 compatibility would be... difficult.  That's a cutting edge
engine afterall, not even out yet.  It's also probably
counterproductive - this wouldn't be a project to compete with T3, but
rather to keep T1/T2 alive, somewhat updated, and letting it grow
beyond the limitations of an out-of-business company that only made it
for the PC. (to my knowledge)

Sound:
- If Sensaura is used it's not possible to upgrade positioning quality
any further.  :P  But EAX 3.0 extensions would be very nice. (for the
uninitiated - EAX 2 applies one echo/reverb/etc model to the sound,
but EAX allows multiple streams.  You can have 3 guys in a metal room
with one in a small metal duct, another coming out of a small room,
and a third in the large room joining the two and tell them apart by
echo alone.

Movement:
- Here's where ALOT of improvement can be made.  This could add a
whole new world of enjoyment to even the existing FM's by making
interacting with them that much more intense.  Keeping T1/T2
compatibility and enhancing it allows

Physics:
- More massive improvement potentials.  I'd like the ability of a real
physics engine - stuff somebody into a treasure chest or under a bed,
or knock them over a chair and they fall realisticially.  This however
could be a bit of work, and (at least for ALL of those abilities) may
not be easy to add into existing levels without adding new data.  But
nothing says it couldn't be a part of the ThiefExt format.  :)  And
'upgrading' existing FM's (the better ones like 7th, Calendra, Manse,
Equilibrium, etc) would be pretty easy - all youre doing is telling
the computer

AI:
- Massive improvement potential, especially if realtime lighting,
shadows, and that were done.  All of the 'cool ideas' people have
thought of for Thief 3 could easily be added into Thief 1 and 2.  And
doing so would bring a whole new life to the original missions and all
the fan missions.. and should still be compatible!    Afterall it
would mostly affect the "warned" behavior, the existing patrol routes
and everything else are already laid down.

Guard Distinction:
- The comment about making guards look or act slightly different
should be doable too, and would help alot.  The game already knows
guards are different - they are set to fixed patrol routes afterall. 
All one has to do is put variables in the graphical rendering - make
guys a little taller or broader, alter hair color, whatever.  There
would be plenty of ways to keep this all 100% compatible with existing
original and FM levels as well.

Controls:
- I can't help but think there must be even better ways to control a
character, new moves that could be added (tumbling in four directions,
including when jumping down to rapidly get out of the light and make
the landing quieter) that would enhance the game alot.  And even open
up new strategy options for existing levels. (which would be a major
plus to some and unfairly advantageous to the player in others) 
Perhaps even force feedback could be added... a nice whack in your
palm when blackjacking someone?  :)


Anyways, that's just my random blurb of something I think would be
cool.  It would take people with programming knowledge (not me :P) and
alot of dedication to pull it off..  but alot of this kind of code
already exists, sometimes from other similar projects.  And getting
help from beyond the Thief community is quite possible as well since
this overlaps with other open source projects.

Any takers?  :)

Jason Steele


PS - feel free to post this information online anywhere on any thief
fan site, ie - I wouldn't mind seeing it up on komag's or the circle
or elsewhere to just kind of sit and wait for interested parties to
stumble across it.