🚀 go-pugleaf

IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER
Johnda...@gmail.com DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR
SCREEN!!!!:
>Hi All,
>
>I've been having a terrible time beating my pal who plays Protoss.  We
>pretty much only play on Lost Temple, due to the genericness of the
>map.
>
>In replays, he has better micro, to my better macro.
>
>I start it off with
>
>8 supply
>9 Baracks
>9.5 Refinery
>11 Supply
>

First off this build is terrible and does nothing except give you a
worse economy. A generic TvP start would be

9 supply 
10 rax
11 refinery
Factory as soon as you have 100 gas(this should be around 16 supply or
close)
2nd depot as soon as you reach 100 mins again (might have to cut an
SCV)

If you see he's zeal rushing, you can opt to start the 2nd depot to
finish the wallin before starting the fact.

>Build vultures, mines, second command and try to prevent him from
>expanding
>
>Unfortunately he's come up with a strategy I cannot over come no
>matter how fast I build.
>
>He basically blocks my 2nd expo exit spot with 5 or 6 zealots.
>Sometime just outside of my main expo.
>
>The reason he does this is so that he can block me from blocking him
>expanding from his first expo to a 2nd expo plateau that isn't weak to
>upper ground siege tank bombardment(basically he has two seperate
>bases.
>
>I normally scout with my 13th SCV and can find when he's about to
>start this expo.
>
>The main problem is that by the time I have my 3rd vulture out he's
>already got 6 or 7 zealots at the front of my base pinning them in.
>
>When I try running by, leaving my base a tad under defended his 2nd
>expo already has 2 cannons at the pinch point and 2 cannons near his
>resources.  So in short, there is no way I can stop that expo with
>just vultures.
>
>My first thought was to block off the entrance point of that 2nd base
>with mines and drop tanks with a few vultures to clean that up.  The
>main problem there is that he has 3 or 4 zealots by that time and
>perhaps a carrier or 2 that he's fast expanding to.
>
>I've tried my darndest to get goliaths up in time....sent 2 tanks and
>4 goliaths in the strat but can never survive.
>
>I've tried stopping his expo...but then he just uses his 5 zealots to
>break through my terran wall.
>
>Any suggestions to this dilemna guys?

I'm not really sure what the problem is here. Are you saying he's
blocking your ramp or choke with zeals, preventing you from leaving
your base? correct? And that h'es expanding very early, like after his
1st gate, around 16-18 supply, yes?

If he's really making that many zealots (5-6) you're gonna kill him
with a 2fact vulture build - do the above build, add a 2nd factory
around 20 supply, get machine shops for both and research speed and
mines at the same time. Move out when you have 6-8 vultures. Since
he's expanding you should have this about the time he has his 6
zeals+forge warping (depending on when he'd get it) if you don't,
practice your basic build mechanics until you do (don't drop SCVs and
never forget to make depots on time, but don't either build them too
early, don't queue up any units but keep your factory rolling at all
time).

With a bit of micro you should be able to kill the zealots with 0 or
very minor losses. If he's making that many zeals at the start he's
not gonna have any money for cannons or goon by that point, which
means your vultures can freely rape his probes and mine his
ramp/gateway exit/everything and you win the game because he has no
eco. Also note that even with a cannon or so, you can usually place
some vults near the mins out of range of them and keep sniping probes
or force him to pull them until he can bring units to clear them up.

If you're saying he has both 6 zeals + cannons at the ledge and
expansion nexus by the time you can move out with a handful of
vultures, you're doing something terribly wrong and just need to
execute your build better, because there's no way he should be able to
afford everything that. Cannons+nexus is possible yes, but not
cannons+nexus+half control group of zeals. And in case he'd go just
cannon you could rape him with a fast siege push anyway.


Another option would be to go 1fact 1port, and again vultures. Do the
above, but instead of a 2nd fact make a starport and get 4 vultures
with mines. Let him camp his zeals at the choke, and just drop the
vultures into his main base. If he has cannons, just sneak the vults
somewhere outside their range where they can hit probes. Also, mine
around his gateways so that any units that he builds will die to
mines, and mine the path to the nexus. When you finally think he'll be
coming for your ass and he's gonna kill your shit, load your vults
back into the dropship, and then go drop his expansion - He'll have to
travel all the way around the map to get to you. 

Simultaneously while you're doing this, you should be getting a 2nd
dropship and researching siege + getting a few tanks. Since you've
been harassing him with the vults his economy is gonna be crap (if it
wasn't already because if his stupid build), and soon you can go drop
his ass with some tanks + vults. Remember, because of the travel
distance, he's not going to be able to defend both his expansion and
main adequately at the same time if your harass was effective - this
should allow you to do significant damage probe damage, or more
likely, probably kill sorry-ass expansion. 


The 3rd option would be to just go regular 2fact joyo. Again, get the
2nd factory around 20 supply (as soon as you have 200/100 gas again),
get two machine shops, and research siege+mines. Move out with 2-3
tanks, 3-4 vults a few marines and 2-3 SCVs. kill his puny zealot
horde(don't lose units), laugh at him wasting money on cannons at his
expo, and go for his main. Build bunker & set up a contain, mine his
ramp, siege the tanks with a nice spread, and build an engineering
bay. Add a turret or two to cover in case he went DTs, and float the
ebay in the air to give you vision up his ramp. Set your factory rally
points to your contain outside his base. 

If he really was zealot/cannon heavy his tech is going to be extremely
late, meaning he's not going to have any way to break out of your
little encampment for a good while. Once you're set up, either float
your barracks (actually start doing that while moving out already) or
start making a 2nd ebay near his expansion ramp, then simply move the
next batch of tanks there, siege, float the ebay/rax for vision, and
kill the cannons on the ledge, move in with tanks/vult to rape his
expansion. 


The last option would be to just get an early expansion yourself -
remember equal expansions in TvP usually means terran has the
advantage.
Go 1fact, and after starting your first tank and siege mode research,
start making a new CC in your main, then simply siege up & float the
CC down once it's finished. Or rather, since he seems to be so zealot
heavy, you could probably get away with even starting the CC before
the factory, because there's no way he'll be able to touch you with a
wallin anyway. Also, if he ever tries to break your wall, just pull
off a good amount of SCVs (proportional to his zeals) to repair it,
and whatever you have on the other side will eventually kill his units
or he'll be forced to retreat if he wants to save his units. You need
to be quick about it though, as if he has several units chances are he
could break the wall before you can bring SCVs to the wall, since the
distance from the minerals to the choke on LT can be kind of long on
some start positions.


Anyway, from your post it sounds to me it's more a case of you just
having bad mechanics/macro and your friend exploiting this, so you'd
probably do best to concentrate on practicing to perfect your builds
(keep those SCVs, depots, and units rolling non-stop) more than trying
to figure out any specific strategies, because mass zealot into cannon
expansion is probably the worst opening ever a Protoss could do in a
PvT on a map like LT.