🚀 go-pugleaf

On 2018-08-17 22:41, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> In this
> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.

I can recognize all of those, but with some difficulty due to the text
on the left panel obscuring a third of each photo. Then, of course, the
models or brands displayed may be different from those I used, which
delays the recognition a few seconds more. Then, some of the photos are
not fortunate, like the VHS tape with only a flat dimension seen.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

On Fri, 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> In this
> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>

I wish web servers would accept <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816>
and show an overview of the content for that day.

> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked
> if they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been
> similar.

That slide show would have been much more interesting if they had
analyzed the reactions from the children, beyond "40% drew a blank"
or "85% were baffled".  Surely the children speculated based on their
knowledge, and came up with some interesting facts and theories.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 16:41:05 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<a...@spamfence.net> wrote:

>In this
><http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.

	My dad managed to 3-D print the "save" icon. It looks almost
identical to the original !!!
	Hum ....
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
> In this
><http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.

Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...

"Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"

Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
commercial one...


-- 
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 +0000, Ian wrote:

> On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> In this
>><http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-
obsolete-technologies>
>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been
>> similar.
> 
> Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
> 
> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel
> 4"
> 
> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was
> the commercial one...

I've had a moan.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 8/18/2018 1:19 AM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> In this
>> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
> 
> I wish web servers would accept <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816>
> and show an overview of the content for that day.
> 
>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked
>> if they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been
>> similar.
> 
> That slide show would have been much more interesting if they had
> analyzed the reactions from the children, beyond "40% drew a blank"
> or "85% were baffled".  Surely the children speculated based on their
> knowledge, and came up with some interesting facts and theories.
> 

Learning and knowledge of the past is deprecated these days...  the kids 
just thought how stupid older people were ... to use such things! IMO


-- 
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

On Sat, 2018-08-18, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 8/18/2018 1:19 AM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Fri, 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> In this
>>> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>> 
>> I wish web servers would accept <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816>
>> and show an overview of the content for that day.
>> 
>>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked
>>> if they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been
>>> similar.
>> 
>> That slide show would have been much more interesting if they had
>> analyzed the reactions from the children, beyond "40% drew a blank"
>> or "85% were baffled".  Surely the children speculated based on their
>> knowledge, and came up with some interesting facts and theories.
>
> Learning and knowledge of the past is deprecated these days...  the kids 
> just thought how stupid older people were ... to use such things! IMO

My point is that's what we're /meant/ to believe, and I'm not at all
sure it's true.  I think it's just a meme created as some kind of
neurotic reaction by people who are uncomfortable with today's
technology.

If it's true, and today's kids indeed lack curiosity, then we're in
big trouble.

I visited a second-hand shop last weekend.  A man in his thirties was
there with his son, who looked ten.  One of them -- I think it was the
boy -- got interested in a cassette radio, and they ended up buying
it.  When I left the shop they were still discussing the availability
of cassettes, and how you could tape over the write-protect hole ...

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
writes:

> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>
> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
> commercial one...

I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
least and still handy for news headlines and weather. Although some
channels have given up on it and what remains is pretty bare bones. But
they still manage to have ads there. I sometimes wonder where they get
the pixel artists for the ads and whether there's a Photoshop plugin of
some sort available...

Interesting point about overhead projectors too. I study Italian in
night school and they seem to have a modernized OHP. Well, the projector
part is just your common computer connected projector in the ceiling and
the teacher's desk has what amounts to a PC connected camera setup so
whatever's under the camera comes out of the projector.

Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> writes:
>In this
><http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.

Re the overhead projector.

Was at a concert over the weekend (Zach Gill).

It was basically a solo act, but there were two fellows with an
overhead projector using it to generate shadows and other
displays[*] on the backdrop behind Zach.

[*] E.g. colored fluids on a spinning glass plate.

On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Ian
> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
> writes:
>
>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>
>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>> commercial one...
>
> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.

Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
- It's by nature brief and text-only.
- You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
  something boring on in general.

> Although some channels have given up on it and what remains is
> pretty bare bones. But they still manage to have ads there.

> I sometimes wonder where they get the pixel artists for the ads and
> whether there's a Photoshop plugin of some sort available...

:-) I prefer to think they have a skilled artist who has done it
continuously since (say) 1982.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On 20/08/2018 21:06, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> Ian
>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>>
>>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>>> commercial one...
>>
>> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
>> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.
> 
> Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
> - It's by nature brief and text-only.
> - You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
>    something boring on in general.
> 
>> Although some channels have given up on it and what remains is
>> pretty bare bones. But they still manage to have ads there.
> 
>> I sometimes wonder where they get the pixel artists for the ads and
>> whether there's a Photoshop plugin of some sort available...
> 
> :-) I prefer to think they have a skilled artist who has done it
> continuously since (say) 1982.
> 
> /Jorgen
> 

Teletext worked on analog TV channels. In Britain the BBC has a 
replacement on its digital channels called the 'Red Button' service. You 
press the red button on TV remote controls to access the service.

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com> wrote:
> On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> In this
>><http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
>
> Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
>
> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>
> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
> commercial one...

Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
completely.

-- 
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
   - Douglas Adams

On 2018-08-20 22:06, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> Ian
>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
>> writes:
>>
>>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>>
>>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>>> commercial one...
>>
>> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
>> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.
> 
> Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
> - It's by nature brief and text-only.
> - You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
>   something boring on in general.

I think it was also used to transmit optional subtitles or voice caption.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

On 21 Aug 2018, Andy Leighton wrote
(in article <slrnpnnrv...@azaal.plus.com>):

> On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 -0000 (UTC),
> Ian<${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
> wrote:
> > On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach<a...@spamfence.net>  wrote:
> > > In this
> > > <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete
> > > -technologies>
> > > BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
> > > they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> > > phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
> >
> > Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
> >
> > "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
> >
> > Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
> > commercial one...
>
> Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
> access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
> completely.

That was Teletex (no final t) a different animal entirely. An ITU standard 
that was hoped to be a successor to telex at one time

-- 
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 
637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 5:56:14 AM UTC-6, Anssi Saari wrote:

> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
> least and still handy for news headlines and weather. Although some
> channels have given up on it and what remains is pretty bare bones.

It's true that if you don't have a data plan on your smartphone, it may 
occasionally save firing up your computer for the Internet. But these days, a 
lot of people spend so much time on the Web that they hardly watch TV any more.

In general, when a new technology comes along that does almost the same thing, 
only better, the old technology does die ignominiously even when there are ways 
in which it could be of service. People only have so much money to spend, so 
they often won't buy the old if they have the new, and companies can only 
support things that are used by enough people.

John Savard

On 21/08/2018 11:56, Andy Leighton wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> In this
>>> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>>> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
>>
>> Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
>>
>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>
>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>> commercial one...
> 
> Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
> access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
> completely.
> 

That looked like teletext but ISTR it was a viewdata service and I still 
think that it is used today.
The main UK viewdata service was Prestel provided by the Post Office. It 
was not really a hit in private homes but it was in use in business and 
libraries.
Teletext was a very small subset of prestel pages that was not really 
interactive but instead allowed the TV to stop on a selected page from a 
continuously looped collection of pages.
Prestel and the like were fully interactive.

As a geeky child I used to live on a prestel terminal at the library, in 
return for me basically living on it the librarians used to use me as 
mentor for novice users.

My first real foray online.

Andy

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 17:32:53 +0100, Elliott Roper <nos...@yrl.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21 Aug 2018, Andy Leighton wrote
> (in article <slrnpnnrv...@azaal.plus.com>):
>
>> On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 -0000 (UTC),
>> Ian<${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach<a...@spamfence.net>  wrote:
>> > > In this
>> > > <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete
>> > > -technologies>
>> > > BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>> > > they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>> > > phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
>> >
>> > Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
>> >
>> > "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>> >
>> > Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>> > commercial one...
>>
>> Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
>> access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
>> completely.
>
> That was Teletex (no final t) a different animal entirely. An ITU standard 
> that was hoped to be a successor to telex at one time

No. It was viewdata (just a specific implementation of Videotext/Teletext) 
over X.25. I worked at Thomas Cook and dealt with it extensively, both on
the X.25 comms level and writing code which sat in front of the
viewdata systems driving them and screen-scraping stuff.

-- 
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
   - Douglas Adams

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 07:34:48 +0100, AndyW <An...@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 21/08/2018 11:56, Andy Leighton wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-08-17, Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> In this
>>>> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
>>>> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
>>>> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
>>>> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
>>>
>>> Seems like the author wasn't around at the time either...
>>>
>>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>>
>>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>>> commercial one...
>> 
>> Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
>> access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
>> completely.
>> 
>
> That looked like teletext but ISTR it was a viewdata service and I still 
> think that it is used today.

> Teletext was a very small subset of prestel pages that was not really 
> interactive but instead allowed the TV to stop on a selected page from a
> continuously looped collection of pages.
> Prestel and the like were fully interactive.

Yep the main difference was interactivity, plus teletext of course only
had a small number of pages (a few hundred)

Teletext and viewdata were more or less compatible - at least the display
codes (for colour, block graphics, etc) were identical AFAICR. Generally 
both viewdata and teletext were mostly dealt with together.

-- 
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
   - Douglas Adams

On 22 Aug 2018, Andy Leighton wrote
(in article <slrnpnq7iq...@azaal.plus.com>):

> On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 17:32:53 +0100, Elliott Roper<nos...@yrl.co.uk>  wrote:
> > On 21 Aug 2018, Andy Leighton wrote
> > (in article <slrnpnnrv...@azaal.plus.com>):
> > >
> > > Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
> > > access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
> > > completely.
> >
> > That was Teletex (no final t) a different animal entirely. An ITU standard
> > that was hoped to be a successor to telex at one time
>
> No. It was viewdata (just a specific implementation of Videotext/Teletext)
> over X.25. I worked at Thomas Cook and dealt with it extensively, both on
> the X.25 comms level and writing code which sat in front of the
> viewdata systems driving them and screen-scraping stuff.

Crikey! Mea culpa. I worked on Teletex and travel agent concentrators about 
the same time and conflated the two in the belief that nobody would use 
teletext for work.

-- 
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 
637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 07:34:48 +0100, AndyW wrote:
>
> On 21/08/2018 11:56, Andy Leighton wrote:
>>
>> Teletext was also widely used in travel agents (usually over X.25) to
>> access tour operator sites to book holidays. That has disappeared
>> completely.
>
> That looked like teletext but ISTR it was a viewdata service and I
> still think that it is used today.
> The main UK viewdata service was Prestel provided by the Post
> Office. It was not really a hit in private homes but it was in use in
> business and libraries.

There was also Ceefax and I always get confused how they relate, no
matter how many Wikipedia articles I read. ;-)

Anyway, the British invented another, now obsolete, technology which was
adopted by many countries in the world during the 1970s and especially 1980s.
-- 
Andreas

My random toughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/

On Tue, 2018-08-21, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2018-08-20 22:06, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
>>> Ian
>>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>>>
>>>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>>>> commercial one...
>>>
>>> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
>>> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.
>> 
>> Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
>> - It's by nature brief and text-only.
>> - You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
>>   something boring on in general.
>
> I think it was also used to transmit optional subtitles or voice caption.

Yes; that's still done in Sweden.  If I understand correctly, they send
a page that's mostly transparent cells, so you're looking at the original
video through the text display.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On 2018-08-23 15:44, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-08-21, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2018-08-20 22:06, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
>>>> Ian
>>>> <${send-direct-email-to-news1021...@jusme.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "Teletext was the equivalent service on channels such as ITV and Channel 4"
>>>>>
>>>>> Teletext was the technology, Ceefax was the BBC version and Oracle was the
>>>>> commercial one...
>>>>
>>>> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
>>>> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.
>>>
>>> Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
>>> - It's by nature brief and text-only.
>>> - You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
>>>   something boring on in general.
>>
>> I think it was also used to transmit optional subtitles or voice caption.
> 
> Yes; that's still done in Sweden.  If I understand correctly, they send
> a page that's mostly transparent cells, so you're looking at the original
> video through the text display.

:-o

I thought it was treated differently by the TV set.

TV is digital now, but the service still runs.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

On Thu, 2018-08-23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2018-08-23 15:44, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Tue, 2018-08-21, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2018-08-20 22:06, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2018-08-20, Anssi Saari wrote:
...
>>>>> I had no idea Teletext has died in the UK. Still available in Finland at
>>>>> least and still handy for news headlines and weather.
>>>>
>>>> Sweden, too.  I suspect a lot of people still use it for news, since:
>>>> - It's by nature brief and text-only.
>>>> - You can read it during commercial breaks or when there's briefly
>>>>   something boring on in general.
>>>
>>> I think it was also used to transmit optional subtitles or voice caption.
>> 
>> Yes; that's still done in Sweden.  If I understand correctly, they send
>> a page that's mostly transparent cells, so you're looking at the original
>> video through the text display.
>
> :-o
>
> I thought it was treated differently by the TV set.

Well, I don't /know/ for sure, but it's the metaphor I use whenever I
happen to go to page 199 where the subtitles live.

> TV is digital now, but the service still runs.

My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
"SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On 8/23/2018 12:58 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
> don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
> "SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.
> 
It connects to the Internet. It can show things like YouTube and 
Netflix without involving a(nother) computer, and may even have its 
own built-in camera and microphone.

It probably also spies on you and tells its masters about your viewing 
habits. Like other Internet Of Things critters, it may open your LAN 
to other malignant access as well. Don't count on timely software updates.

On 2018-08-23, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:

> On 8/23/2018 12:58 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>
>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
>> don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
>> "SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.
> 
> It connects to the Internet. It can show things like YouTube and 
> Netflix without involving a(nother) computer, and may even have its 
> own built-in camera and microphone.
>
> It probably also spies on you and tells its masters about your viewing 
> habits. Like other Internet Of Things critters, it may open your LAN 
> to other malignant access as well. Don't count on timely software updates.

"When you watch TV, it watches you."

Once upon a time, such devices were known as "telescreens".

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:19:54 +0000, Huge wrote:

> On 2018-08-23, Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> 
> [28 lines snipped]
> 
>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I don't
>> understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a "SmartTV"
> 
> A TV with a shitty web browser and a shitty media streamer built in.
> 
>> and do I want one?
> 
> No. Buy a "dumb" TV (if you can find one) and something like a Roku box,
> or buy a SMART TV and budget to buy a Roku when you discover just how
> crappy the "SMART" bit is. Oh, and firewall it off from your home
> network,
> consider firewalling it off from everything on the Internet other than
> content providers and fill the microphone (typically in the remote) with
> epoxy.
> 
> And under no circumstances buy a Samdung.

+1

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:04:10 +0000, Huge wrote:

> On 2018-08-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2018-08-23, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/23/2018 12:58 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>>
>>>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I don't
>>>> understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a "SmartTV"
>>>> and do I want one?  Etc.
>>> 
>>> It connects to the Internet. It can show things like YouTube and
>>> Netflix without involving a(nother) computer, and may even have its
>>> own built-in camera and microphone.
>>>
>>> It probably also spies on you and tells its masters about your viewing
>>> habits. Like other Internet Of Things critters, it may open your LAN
>>> to other malignant access as well. Don't count on timely software
>>> updates.
>>
>> "When you watch TV, it watches you."
>>
>> Once upon a time, such devices were known as "telescreens".
> 
> About 34 years ago, right?

You beat me to it.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 2018-08-23, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-08-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-08-23, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/23/2018 12:58 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>>
>>>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
>>>> don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
>>>> "SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.
>>> 
>>> It connects to the Internet. It can show things like YouTube and 
>>> Netflix without involving a(nother) computer, and may even have its 
>>> own built-in camera and microphone.
>>>
>>> It probably also spies on you and tells its masters about your viewing 
>>> habits. Like other Internet Of Things critters, it may open your LAN 
>>> to other malignant access as well. Don't count on timely software updates.
>>
>> "When you watch TV, it watches you."
>>
>> Once upon a time, such devices were known as "telescreens".
>
> About 34 years ago, right?

Or 70, depending.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 23 Aug 2018 21:21:56 GMT, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:19:54 +0000, Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2018-08-23, Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>> 
>> [28 lines snipped]
>> 
>>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I don't
>>> understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a "SmartTV"
>> 
>> A TV with a shitty web browser and a shitty media streamer built in.
>> 
>>> and do I want one?
>> 
>> No. Buy a "dumb" TV (if you can find one) and something like a Roku box,
>> or buy a SMART TV and budget to buy a Roku when you discover just how
>> crappy the "SMART" bit is. Oh, and firewall it off from your home
>> network,
>> consider firewalling it off from everything on the Internet other than
>> content providers and fill the microphone (typically in the remote) with
>> epoxy.
>> 
>> And under no circumstances buy a Samdung.
>
>+1

I'm curious--what brand do you recommend these days?  The options seem
to be a few Japanese companies, two Korean ones, and a bunch of
off-brand.

On 2018-08-23, J  Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Aug 2018 21:21:56 GMT, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:19:54 +0000, Huge wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-08-23, Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [28 lines snipped]
>>> 
>>>> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I don't
>>>> understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a "SmartTV"
>>> 
>>> A TV with a shitty web browser and a shitty media streamer built in.
>>> 
>>>> and do I want one?
>>> 
>>> No. Buy a "dumb" TV (if you can find one) and something like a Roku box,
>>> or buy a SMART TV and budget to buy a Roku when you discover just how
>>> crappy the "SMART" bit is. Oh, and firewall it off from your home
>>> network,
>>> consider firewalling it off from everything on the Internet other than
>>> content providers and fill the microphone (typically in the remote) with
>>> epoxy.
>>> 
>>> And under no circumstances buy a Samdung.
>>
>> +1
>
> I'm curious--what brand do you recommend these days?  The options seem
> to be a few Japanese companies, two Korean ones, and a bunch of
> off-brand.

We've been having good luck with LG (hmm, Lucky Goldstar... coincidence?).
No smart TVs, but we have a 42-incher in the den and a 60 in the living
room and they both have been working great for some time.  Oh, and then
there's my flip phone...

Too bad, I remember when Samsung's star was rising.  I was quite
impressed with them for a while...

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  Fight low-contrast text in web pages!  http://contrastrebellion.com

On 23 Aug 2018 19:20:59 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-08-23, Dave Garland <dave.g...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> > On 8/23/2018 12:58 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> >
> >> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
> >> don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
> >> "SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.
> >> 
> > It connects to the Internet. It can show things like YouTube and 
> > Netflix without involving a(nother) computer, and may even have its 
> > own built-in camera and microphone.
> >
> > It probably also spies on you and tells its masters about your viewing 
> > habits. Like other Internet Of Things critters, it may open your LAN 
> > to other malignant access as well. Don't count on timely software
> > updates.
> 
> Precisely. I forgot about the "software updates" bit. Expect services
> to go away until eventually it just turns into a TV.

	Yep so if you want that sort of thing buy a TV and an Android TV
box, and expect to replace the latter every couple of years because they
don't get OS software updates either, but they are relatively cheap and
easily replaced.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-08-23, Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se> wrote:

> My TV set broke down last week. I may want to replace it, but I
> don't understand the feature set of the current models.  What's a
> "SmartTV" and do I want one?  Etc.

A half-decent panel with an underpowered mobile phone processor
and buggy, nonstandard web browser that became unsupported
aproximately 3 nanoseconds after it left the factory.

"Smart", "Eco", "Green": Warning labels


-- 
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 09:34:09 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 23 Aug 2018 19:20:59 GMT
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Precisely. I forgot about the "software updates" bit. Expect
> > services to go away until eventually it just turns into a TV.  
> 
> 	Yep so if you want that sort of thing buy a TV and an Android
> TV box, and expect to replace the latter every couple of years
> because they don't get OS software updates either, but they are
> relatively cheap and easily replaced.
> 
There's a Raspberry Pi Zero W hanging out the back of my TV to give it
the smarts.  It runs a flavour of Debian so is unlikely to go out of
support any time soon, and copes very well with 720P playback.

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:

> On 2018-08-23, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "When you watch TV, it watches you."
>>
>> Once upon a time, such devices were known as "telescreens".
> 
> About 34 years ago, right?

34 years ago, my 80 y.o. mother, (who, I'm pretty sure, never read the
book) consulting my superior tech knowledge, seriously inquired if her
TV might be watching her.  I was able to say that, barring a major TLA
personally targeting her at great effort and expense, her decade old
set that could receive 3 broadcast channels only by rotating a rooftop
antenna with a servo controller was not able to watch her.  The little
red light did *not* indicate surveillance in progress.

I couldn't offer as much comfort today.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

 > I couldn't offer as much comfort today.

https://i.redd.it/1sb0m2af07001.jpg

De

d...@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) writes:

>> I couldn't offer as much comfort today.
> 
> https://i.redd.it/1sb0m2af07001.jpg

Hah.  Yes.

M-x spook-lines.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 3:41:06 PM UTC-5, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> In this
> <http://www.bbc.com/future/gallery/20180816-do-you-recognise-these-obsolete-technologies>
> BBC article children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> phones. Suppose results in the rest of the world would had been similar.
> -- 
> Andreas

- ∙ ∙-∙∙ ∙ --∙ ∙-∙ ∙- ∙--∙ ∙∙∙∙ ∙∙∙

for the above.   ___________________________________  Gerard Schildberger

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:41:06 PM UTC-6, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> children in the UK between six and 18 years were asked if
> they'd recognize ancient technologies like floppy disks or rotary
> phones.

I certainly haven't forgotten that floopy disks or rotary phones existed, and 
these children don't know about them simply brecause they had never encountered 
them. So who has forgotten anything? Or is the wildly inappropriate title the 
BBC's? (I tried clicking on the link, but the slideshow refused to display.)

John Savard