🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>excerpt from CNN report
>
>For every article about Facebook's creepy stalker behavior, 
>thousands of other companies are breathing a collective sigh 
>of relief that it's Facebook and not them in the spotlight. 
>Because while Facebook is one of the biggest players in this 
>space, there are thousands of other companies that spy on and 
>manipulate us for profit. Harvard Business School professor 
>Shoshana Zuboff calls it "surveillance capitalism." And as 

Yes, the loyalty cards for stores that give a discount or email
coupons.

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> full article at:
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/opinions/data-company-spying-opinion-schneier/index.html

We were brought in to help wordsmith cal. state legislation when they
were working on "electronic signature", "data breach notification", and
"opt-in personal information sharing". "Electronic signature" and "data
breach notification" passed, but before "opt-in" passed, a (federal
pre-emption state laws) "opt-out" was added to GLBA. "Opt-in" required
institutions to have record of person agreeing to sharing information,
"Opt-out" allowed sharing unless institution had record of person
objecting to sharing information. At national annual privacy conference
last decade with panel discussion with all the FTC commissioners and
somebody asked them if they were going to do anything about "opt-out"
personal information sharing. He said he worked for call center
technology company used by most financial institutions and knew that
their "opt-out" operations never made a record of people objecting to
sharing their personal information. The FTC commissioners just ignored
the question

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:28:09 -0700, Anne & Lynn Wheeler
<ly...@garlic.com> wrote:

>hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>> full article at:
>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/opinions/data-company-spying-opinion-schneier/index.html
>
>We were brought in to help wordsmith cal. state legislation when they
>were working on "electronic signature", "data breach notification", and
>"opt-in personal information sharing". "Electronic signature" and "data
>breach notification" passed, but before "opt-in" passed, a (federal
>pre-emption state laws) "opt-out" was added to GLBA. "Opt-in" required
>institutions to have record of person agreeing to sharing information,
>"Opt-out" allowed sharing unless institution had record of person
>objecting to sharing information. At national annual privacy conference
>last decade with panel discussion with all the FTC commissioners and
>somebody asked them if they were going to do anything about "opt-out"
>personal information sharing. He said he worked for call center
>technology company used by most financial institutions and knew that
>their "opt-out" operations never made a record of people objecting to
>sharing their personal information. The FTC commissioners just ignored
>the question

Of course, they know who butters their bread.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 15:19:54 -0500, JimP wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> 
>>excerpt from CNN report
>>
>>For every article about Facebook's creepy stalker behavior, thousands of
>>other companies are breathing a collective sigh of relief that it's
>>Facebook and not them in the spotlight. Because while Facebook is one of
>>the biggest players in this space, there are thousands of other
>>companies that spy on and manipulate us for profit. Harvard Business
>>School professor Shoshana Zuboff calls it "surveillance capitalism." And
>>as
> 
> Yes, the loyalty cards for stores that give a discount or email coupons.

The only one I had was a Nectar card, and I junked that when they linked 
up with the Daily Mail.

(for leftpondians, the Daily Mail is a right-wing newspaper which would 
probably be too far right for Trump; its owner supported Hitler in the 
1930s, and his descendant still owns it)



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:24 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> 
> >excerpt from CNN report
> >
> >For every article about Facebook's creepy stalker behavior, 
> >thousands of other companies are breathing a collective sigh 
> >of relief that it's Facebook and not them in the spotlight. 
> >Because while Facebook is one of the biggest players in this 
> >space, there are thousands of other companies that spy on and 
> >manipulate us for profit. Harvard Business School professor 
> >Shoshana Zuboff calls it "surveillance capitalism." And as 
> 
> Yes, the loyalty cards for stores that give a discount or email
> coupons.

Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.

On 2018-03-28, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Which is why privacy geeks have been swapping loyalty cards for years.

In most cases stores give you the card right on the spot and don't ask
for ID so it's easy enough to give them completely bogus information.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 23:03:38 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
<rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

>On 2018-03-28, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> Which is why privacy geeks have been swapping loyalty cards for years.
>
>In most cases stores give you the card right on the spot and don't ask
>for ID so it's easy enough to give them completely bogus information.

And generally there's a duty card that the checker will scan if you
don't have your own.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 23:03:38 -0000 (UTC)
Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-03-28, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> > Which is why privacy geeks have been swapping loyalty cards for years.
> 
> In most cases stores give you the card right on the spot and don't ask
> for ID so it's easy enough to give them completely bogus information.

	However if you don't give the right address then you miss out on
the mailings of money off coupons.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
> 	However if you don't give the right address then you miss out on
> the mailings of money off coupons.

I'm perfectly willing to forego those and other "perks" - it's not worth
it to me to give them any real personal information. A lot of stores
though are getting away from such mailings and using emailed coupons (you
can always use a free random address for this) or just spitting out
special deals along with your receipt at point of purchase.

Basically they are buying information and I'm not selling.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2018-03-29, Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-03-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> 	However if you don't give the right address then you miss out on
>> the mailings of money off coupons.
>
> I'm perfectly willing to forego those and other "perks" - it's not worth
> it to me to give them any real personal information. A lot of stores
> though are getting away from such mailings and using emailed coupons (you
> can always use a free random address for this) or just spitting out
> special deals along with your receipt at point of purchase.
>
> Basically they are buying information and I'm not selling.
>


I agree. My children all use Facebook, one keeps telling me that
unless I use my real name, I lose the benefit of it, and may be cut
off completely. Hah!

IMHO, facebook is about gathering data, and its OK as long as you
accept that. 

(my real name can be easily found, if they want to, by matching up my
contacts, and finding out who is missing)

Years ago, I was having a quiet drink, when a relative who had lost
his job arrived in to whine. and started to tell about how he was
keeping up with his friends that had been let go as well, through
Facebook, so, being relaxed, I got imaginative, and joined up as
well, using a combination of friends names, people who had joined the
greater population who know if heaven or hell exist.

Reminds me of once, on a business trip, a man who was travelling with
me helped put in the time by telling the plot of a TV soap he had
just seen. Dallas. TV for thickos.

Anyhow, now when I logon to Facebook, I get a reminder of what books
I have viewed on Amazon.

One thing I like about the US is the concept of the "Free Citizen",
so what is the correct behaviour of a "Free Citizen" to Facebook?..
Lie Like hell, as most people do now with pollsters.

I remember, when I used it more, Stallman had a thing in Emacs, using
which you could pepper your messages with strings like "AlQueda",
"Din" or "Marx".. That was in a better time, I wouldn't really like
guantanamo.

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:24 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> 
>> >excerpt from CNN report
>> >
>> >For every article about Facebook's creepy stalker behavior, 
>> >thousands of other companies are breathing a collective sigh 
>> >of relief that it's Facebook and not them in the spotlight. 
>> >Because while Facebook is one of the biggest players in this 
>> >space, there are thousands of other companies that spy on and 
>> >manipulate us for profit. Harvard Business School professor 
>> >Shoshana Zuboff calls it "surveillance capitalism." And as 
>> 
>> Yes, the loyalty cards for stores that give a discount or email
>> coupons.
>
>Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
>a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
>store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.
>

Which is why I patronize a grocery store that doesn't discount
merchandise for loyalty card holders.

On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 13:28:22 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>>On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:24 PM UTC-4, JimP wrote:
>>> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> >excerpt from CNN report
>>> >
>>> >For every article about Facebook's creepy stalker behavior, 
>>> >thousands of other companies are breathing a collective sigh 
>>> >of relief that it's Facebook and not them in the spotlight. 
>>> >Because while Facebook is one of the biggest players in this 
>>> >space, there are thousands of other companies that spy on and 
>>> >manipulate us for profit. Harvard Business School professor 
>>> >Shoshana Zuboff calls it "surveillance capitalism." And as 
>>> 
>>> Yes, the loyalty cards for stores that give a discount or email
>>> coupons.
>>
>>Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
>>a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
>>store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.
>>
>
>Which is why I patronize a grocery store that doesn't discount
>merchandise for loyalty card holders.

I knew a guy years ago, bachelor, who would buy diapers for his
neighbors using his loyalty card. He told me he did that to throw off
the data miners.

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
> a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
> store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.

Well, in the words of the inestimable Dr. Rot13, Shpxrznyy.  Not that
I'm rolling in cash, y'unnerstan',  but (this time in the words of
Granny Weatherwax) "I can't be havin' with that."

My wife always turns to the person in the supermarket line behind her
and asks if they use the loyalty card.  If they do, our checkout goes
on their loyalty card and we pay cash.  So far, there are no reports
of a devout Jewish or Muslim person being hounded because our makings
for pork rolls or clam chowder showed up on their record somewwhere.


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

ma...@mail.com writes:

> I remember, when I used it more, Stallman had a thing in Emacs, using
> which you could pepper your messages with strings like "AlQueda",
> "Din" or "Marx".. That was in a better time, I wouldn't really like
> guantanamo.

M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating you spook.lines files to
avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
ancient history.

Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> ma...@mail.com writes:
> M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating you spook.lines files to
> avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
> ancient history.
>
> Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
> including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
> archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.
>
>

What a fun day - just learned something.  Never knew that command existed. 
But now that I know, I'll be using it liberally.

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> 
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> 
>> Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
>> a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
>> store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.
> 
> Well, in the words of the inestimable Dr. Rot13, Shpxrznyy.  Not that
> I'm rolling in cash, y'unnerstan',  but (this time in the words of
> Granny Weatherwax) "I can't be havin' with that."
> 
> My wife always turns to the person in the supermarket line behind her
> and asks if they use the loyalty card.  If they do, our checkout goes
> on their loyalty card and we pay cash.  So far, there are no reports
> of a devout Jewish or Muslim person being hounded because our makings
> for pork rolls or clam chowder showed up on their record somewwhere.
> 
> 

We also get money off on gas for using the card, but that requires having
the car when pYing for gas.

-- 
Pete

RS Wood <r...@therandymon.com> writes:

> On 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating your spook.lines files to
>> avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
>> ancient history.
>>
>> Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
>> including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
>> archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.
> 
> What a fun day - just learned something.  Never knew that command
> existed.  But now that I know, I'll be using it liberally.

Yer welcome.  Next up: M-x dissociated-press in any text buffer.
Create updated replacement for Lorem Ipsum, simulate presidential
rhetoric, troll for handy neologisms. ("Edualize" was one I liked.)

As a CP/M user, I was stuck in front of a Unix workstation with X on a
big color monitor and told to "do something interesting".  Emacs was
the editor.  I hated it.  But I walked over to the Square and bought
the hardcopy manual, read it cover to cover.  That's probably the only
reason I knew about spook or dissociated-press.  And of course, 30
years on I use Emacs all the time, would be lost without it.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On Fri, 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
> ma...@mail.com writes:
>
>> I remember, when I used it more, Stallman had a thing in Emacs, using
>> which you could pepper your messages with strings like "AlQueda",
>> "Din" or "Marx".. That was in a better time, I wouldn't really like
>> guantanamo.
>
> M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating you spook.lines files to
> avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
> ancient history.
>
> Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
> including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
> archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.

I haven't paid attention, but I thought they were more into
collecting metadata these days, like who's talking to whom,
and when.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

Mike Spencer wrote:

> Next up: M-x dissociated-press in any text buffer.

C-x M-c M-butterfly ?

On 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
>
>> Unfortunately, today consumers are basically forced to take out
>> a "loyalty card" and submit to tracking because the prices on many
>> store items are jacked up without the loyalty card.
>
> Well, in the words of the inestimable Dr. Rot13, Shpxrznyy.  Not that
> I'm rolling in cash, y'unnerstan',  but (this time in the words of
> Granny Weatherwax) "I can't be havin' with that."
>
> My wife always turns to the person in the supermarket line behind her
> and asks if they use the loyalty card.  If they do, our checkout goes
> on their loyalty card and we pay cash.  So far, there are no reports
> of a devout Jewish or Muslim person being hounded because our makings
> for pork rolls or clam chowder showed up on their record somewwhere.
>
>

I explained on another group years ago, that I go to a loyalty card,
larger supermarket, for two things, "Alcohol for Christmas", and
fish.
I am probably down one some database as an alcoholic seal.


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> ma...@mail.com writes:
>
>> I remember, when I used it more, Stallman had a thing in Emacs, using
>> which you could pepper your messages with strings like "AlQueda",
>> "Din" or "Marx".. That was in a better time, I wouldn't really like
>> guantanamo.
>
> M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating you spook.lines files to
> avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
> ancient history.
>
> Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
> including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
> archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.
>
>

Unfortunatly, I have given up emacs years ago, but I chuckle at the
idea. I will follow up the base64 bytes thing, maybe have it as
a plugin (Hey, maybe it exist!


-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On 2018-03-30, RS Wood <r...@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 2018-03-30, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>> ma...@mail.com writes:
>> M-x spook.  You really have to keep updating you spook.lines files to
>> avoid anachronistic insertions, though.  Kennedy, Qadaffi and Waco are
>> ancient history.
>>
>> Today, you can probably trigger the digital watchdogs just by
>> including a long string of base64-encoded random bytes.  They'll get
>> archived as possibly encrypted subvesriveness.
>>
>>
>
> What a fun day - just learned something.  Never knew that command existed. 
> But now that I know, I'll be using it liberally.


I hope you live in the US,

-- 
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man

On Sat, 2018-03-31, Andy Burns wrote:
> Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Next up: M-x dissociated-press in any text buffer.
>
> C-x M-c M-butterfly ?

Actually, it's just M-x butterflies.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .