🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <23...@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
> .........
>support services are provided by the DEMOS Software Cooperative (named
>after the moon of Mars, not short for Demonstration, as many US
>readers appear to have inferred).
> .........

Nothing to do with the Mars's moon. I am not quite sure about the
English spelling of the moon's name, but in Russian it sounds
something like Deimos (D-eh-i-...) and is known to mean 'Horror' in
ancient Greek.

Demos in the same ancient Greek is 'people, citizens', thus
'democracy' - the power of people (citizens).

We got our name from the product, around which our team was formed -
UNIX-like systems for Soviet-made computers. Demos was the abbreviation
for the Russian "Dialogovaya Edinaya Mobil'naya Operatsionnaya Sistema"
meaning "Interactive Unified Portable Operating System".


Anyway, thank you, Doug, for the scrupulous investigation.
-- 
------------------------------------+------------------------------
Dmitry V. Volodin                   |
internet: <d...@hq.demos.su>         |
       or <dvv%hq....@fuug.fi> |         Motto coming soon.

In article <23...@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>On September 10, 1990, I saw a posting on the USENET newsgroup known
>as alt.folklore.computers purporting to be from one Vadim G. Antonov
                           ==========
Notice the snide "purporting," even though Vadim's bona fides have been
abundantly clear to anyone with a brain, as the article itself proceeds
to make clear!

>from an organization known as DEMOS in Moscow.  On Sept. 16, I sent
>out an inquiry over USENET directed to 39 newsgroups, 

and a singularly pompous "inquiry" it was too, starting with bothering a
Congressman about it -- guaranteed trouble for the net in the long run...

[details on USSR network deleted -- my thanks to whoever set him straight]

>...People at DEMOS Software are in contact with people at the Open Systems
>Foundation and at Bell Labs.  The Soviet UNIX User's Group will host
>the First Soviet UNIX User's Conference in Moscow, Oct 29 to Nov 2.
>
>			--------------------
>
>How do we know that the entire thing isn't an elaborate hoax?  

Well, the answer is that IT IS!  Yes, the Open Systems Foundation and
Bell Labs are elaborate hoaxes.  I didn't want to have to reveal it this
soon, but you forced me.  Space aliens will now occupy New Jersey. :-)

>                                                                There
>was an elaborate (and funny) April fool's hoax perpetrated in 1984 ...

which proved once again, in case we ever doubted it, that no matter HOW
obviously bogus you make a forged article look, there will always be
some gullible fraction of chowderheads who will take it seriously and
respond with flames, pompous rebuttals, goofy encomiums, and whatnot.
Let's face it, I could forge a posting from the Tooth Fairy and at least
five of you rocket scientists out there would complain about missing
dimes under your pillows twenty years ago.  Two of you would accuse the
Tooth Fairy of sexism or bad grammar, and one would say he missed the
whole discussion so would someone please repost it.  (But that he
doesn't read this newsgroup...)

>It would be quite remarkable if the contacts with DEMOS software were
>forgeries.  

Especially since they're not.  Get a life!  

--- From UUCP maps/u.fin.1 as of 04 Sep 90 ---

#N	demos dvv.hq.demos.su .su
#S	IT386SX; SCO XENIX 2.3.2
#O	Demos Co-operative
#C	Dmitry Volodin
#E	dvv%hq....@fuug.fi
#T	+7 095 231 2129
#P	pod.1 d.6 Ovchinnikovskaya nab., SU-113035 Moscow, USSR
#L
#W	oj...@fuug.fi; Mon Aug 13 21:41:12 1990
#W	oj...@fuug.fi; Mon Aug 20 19:56:48 1990
#
#
demos	fuug(HOURLY)

#N	ioc
#S	Labtam 32; Unix V.3
#O	Institute of Cybernetics, Estonian Academy of Science
#C	Alexander Schmundak
#E	sasha@ioc.uucp
#T	+7 0142 527316
#P	Akadeemia tee 21, SU-20010 Tallinn, Estonia, USSR
#L
#W	oj...@fuug.fi; Sat May 27 20:50:51 EET DST 1990
#
#
ioc	fuug(HOURLY)

-----------------------------------------------

Let's investigate something believable, like whether the following
improbable person really exists or is an elaborate hoax.

>					Doug Jones
>					jo...@herky.cs.uiowa.edu

-- 
To exit --          [__]   Tom Neff
    press <Enter>.  [__]   tn...@bfmny0.BFM.COM

jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
> How do we know that the entire thing isn't an elaborate hoax?  There

The postmaster at mcsun --- the European gateway --- would know.  I'm a
little suspicious about:

>         isi.itfs.nsk.su - Institute of Systems Researches (Novosibirsk)

OK, nsk == Novosibirsk

But

>         kaija.spb.su    - Center KAIJA (Leningrad)
>         iias.spb.su     - Institute of Informatique (Leningrad)

Recall that Leningrad was, before 1917, St. Petersburg.  Is this a
likely sub-domain?  Renaming Stalingrad as Volgograd was fair enough
during de-Stalinization following the Secret Speach, but de-Leninisation
hasn't started yet...

ian

In article <8?H%%?*@masalla.fulcrum.bt.co.uk> I.G.B...@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten) writes:
>Recall that Leningrad was, before 1917, St. Petersburg.  Is this a
>likely sub-domain?  Renaming Stalingrad as Volgograd was fair enough
>during de-Stalinization following the Secret Speach, but de-Leninisation
>hasn't started yet...
>
>ian

You are out-of-date. de-Leninisation HAS started, though not at
full swing.
-- 
------------------------------------+------------------------------
Dmitry V. Volodin                   |
internet: <d...@hq.demos.su>         |
       or <dvv%hq....@fuug.fi> |         Motto coming soon.

In article <23...@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> jo...@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:


   First, the USSR is receiving the USENET news feed.  Welcome!

	   alt.folklore.computers
Obvious good first choice.

	   comp.protocols.iso
And why not comp.protocols.tcp-ip ?

--Ed

In article <15...@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tn...@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes:
>
>Let's investigate something believable, like whether the following
>improbable person really exists or is an elaborate hoax.

	I'm surely a hoax. Have you any doubts?

	Vadim Antonov
	DEMOS, Moscow, USSR
	(It is NOT a joke!)

In article <EMV.90Se...@picasso.math.lsa.umich.edu> e...@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>
>   First, the USSR is receiving the USENET news feed.  Welcome!
>
>	   alt.folklore.computers
>Obvious good first choice.

	Yes, it's *really* the best place in nets.

>	   comp.protocols.iso
>And why not comp.protocols.tcp-ip ?

	Desinfomation, I actually read it.

	Vadim Antonov
	DEMOS, Moscow, USSR
	(It is NOT a joke!)

>>>>> On 20 Sep 90 06:23:04 GMT, tn...@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) said:

Tom> --- From UUCP maps/u.fin.1 as of 04 Sep 90 ---
Tom> #N	ioc
Tom> #S	Labtam 32; Unix V.3
        ^^^^^^^^^
Tom> #O	Institute of Cybernetics, Estonian Academy of Science
Tom> #C	Alexander Schmundak
Tom> #E	sasha@ioc.uucp
Tom> #T	+7 0142 527316
Tom> #P	Akadeemia tee 21, SU-20010 Tallinn, Estonia, USSR
Tom> #L
Tom> #W	oj...@fuug.fi; Sat May 27 20:50:51 EET DST 1990
Tom> #
Tom> #
Tom> ioc	fuug(HOURLY)


Has this Labtam been paid for?  

For those who don't know, Labtam is now in receivership because the
commies can't pay their bills.  One of the RISKS of doing business
with the USSR --- you can't send the bailiffs round when they default.

Whatever the technical legal term, IMHO if this is one of the unpaid
computers then until the bill is paid, morally speaking, ioc is stolen
property.
--
				Zev Sero  -  z...@bby.oz.au
"Men have no right to put the well-being of the present generation
wholly out of the question.  Perhaps the only moral trust with any
certainty in our hands is the care of our own time".
						- Edmund Burke

d...@hq.demos.su (Dmitry V. Volodin) writes:
> You are out-of-date. de-Leninisation HAS started, though not at
> full swing.

I must apologise for doubting the reality of the ``.su'' domain.  One of
my UUCP feeds is now exchanging mail with it...

ian

In article <ZVS.90Se...@leo.bby.oz.au> z...@bby.oz.au (Zev Sero) writes:
>Whatever the technical legal term, IMHO if this is one of the unpaid
>computers then until the bill is paid, morally speaking, ioc is stolen
>property.

	YHO is wrong.

	Vadim Antonov
	DEMOS, Moscow, USSR
	(It is NOT a joke!)

>>>>> On 24 Sep 90 14:57:54 GMT, a...@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) said:

Vadim> z...@bby.oz.au (Zev Sero) writes:
Zev> Whatever the technical legal term, IMHO if this is one of the unpaid
Zev> computers then until the bill is paid, morally speaking, ioc is stolen
Zev> property.

Vadim> 	YHO is wrong.

Are you saying that the condition which I specified for MHO (`if this
is one of the unpaid computers') does not happen to be true?  If this
is so, then MHO is right, but does not apply to this case.

If you are saying that ioc *is* one of the computers on whose payment
the USSR has defaulted, sending Labtam into receivership, then I must
ask you why MHO is (IYO) wrong?
--
				Zev Sero  -  z...@bby.oz.au
"Men have no right to put the well-being of the present generation
wholly out of the question.  Perhaps the only moral trust with any
certainty in our hands is the care of our own time".
						- Edmund Burke

In article <8?H%%?*@masalla.fulcrum.bt.co.uk> I.G.B...@fulcrum.bt.co.uk (Ian G Batten) writes:

}Recall that Leningrad was, before 1917, St. Petersburg.  Is this a
}likely sub-domain?  Renaming Stalingrad as Volgograd was fair enough
}during de-Stalinization following the Secret Speach, but de-Leninisation
}hasn't started yet...


No.  Before 1917 Leningrad was Petrograd.  I don't remember when the change
was made from St. Petersburg to Petrograd, though.

-- 
Jerry Gardner, NJ6A					Altos Computer Systems
UUCP: {sun|pyramid|sco|amdahl|uunet}!altos!jerry	2641 Orchard Parkway
Internet: je...@altos.com				San Jose, CA  95134
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.                     (408) 432-6200

In article <41...@altos86.Altos.COM> je...@altos86.Altos.COM (Jerry Gardner) writes:

   No.  Before 1917 Leningrad was Petrograd.  I don't remember when the change
   was made from St. Petersburg to Petrograd, though.


Petrograd is nothing more than the Russian way to say "St.
Petersburg".  It means exactly the same thing.  That name change was
trivial.


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