🚀 go-pugleaf

Yashar Koach! The concept of predi...@taic.net wrote:
> 
> In soc.culture.jewish Yaakov Menken <men...@torah.org> wrote:
> 
> : In codes research, we are dealing with a similar situation: 1) The
> : credibility of serious codes research will be compromised by amateurs
> : whose "discoveries" are scientifically meaningless 2) People will
> : exploit the Torah to present all kinds of counterfeit proofs, by
> : finding "hidden messages", that bolster their ideology.
> 
> : We have a very important and valuable phenomenon that has been
> : discovered. It's a scientific discovery that can really help us get a
> : better understanding of the nature of our existence. Rather than have
> : it watered down with people's personal exploitation or
> : misunderstanding, we should be investing more in serious research and
> : understanding of the phenomenon.
> 
>         Here is my proposition: The ability of a text to have predictive
> value goes hand-in-hand with statistical relevancy. If I cannot look at a
> text *before* an event, and find statistically meaningful and relevant
> information with predictive value, then there can be no statistically
> relevant "investigation" of such text after the fact to find hidden
> meanings. Not with any degree of intellectual honesty.
> 
>         For any given searched term, any search in text near that term
> must have equal information and meaning both before and after the event.
> If I search for "Yitzchak Rabin" and see "Assassin who will assassinate",
> but I do not spot anything else relevant before the assassination, I
> should *not* be able to look at the text after the event has happened, and
> find "Amir" in there, equidistant or not.
> 
>         On the other hand, if I see Rabin, and I see Assassin, and I then
> say to myself : "Self, let's see if the name of the person is here". And
> then I look. If I then find, say, 200 different Hebrew names, and conclude
> that there are so many present that there's nothing useful (i.e. your
> statement about "cannot predict") then THE EXACT SAME FORCE OF STATISTICS
> prevents me from going and looking after Rabin is killed, and finding the
> name "Amir" and saying "Hey, look, something relevant, but I couldn't
> figure it out before". No way. If I can't figure it out before as
> something statistically relevant, then I should not be able to honestly
> "find" it afterwards.
> 
>         If there's no predictive value, there is no statistically
> meaningful "afer-the-fact" related information.
> 
> : I myself as the original researcher of the phenomenon of Torah codes,
> : investigated thoroughly the question of predicting the future. I
> : reached the conclusion that it is impossible. I saw this through
> : experimentation and also as a simple point of logic. There are several
> : reasons why it's impossible. I will give the most basic reason. In
> : general, we always have difficulty understanding a text where we don't
> : have any syntax or punctuation. In the plain Hebrew text of the Torah,
> : without punctuation, I could easily read the ten commandments as
> : telling me to steal and murder. There's a verse that describes Moses
> : being commandment to bring incense. I could easily read it as a
> : commandment to use drugs. All we have is a few isolated encoded words
> : of a hidden text. Maybe we're missing some very critical words. It's
> : literally impossible to learn a coherent story out of the
> : juxtaposition of a few words that may be somehow related.
> 
>         And if you are right, then that is *PRECISELY* why there would be
> no meaningful code present. If you need events that have happened to
> happen in order to construct (and the way you've just put it, the word
> "construct" is the right word) a "relevant" text.
> 
>         Think about this, and please respond meaningfully.Yeshar Koach! The concept of predictability is totally useless. Drosnin 
got famous because of Rabin. But interpreting codes can lead to  a 
myriad different opinions. The Torah contains everything.. But the 
objective scientifically-based discoveries of past events are much more 
meaningful than these predictions. After all, maybe the murderer who 
shall murder -- Yitzchak Rabin -- could be interpreted as saying he was 
both headed for murder and was a murderer as part of the Zionist cabal 
turning Judaism on its head. Hence interpretive predictions are a waste 
of time...