🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Article View: alt.folklore.computers
Article #625563

Re: PDP-10 addressing, PDP 11/40 system manual

#625563
From: Questor
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:56
37 lines
3779 bytes
On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 15:23:07 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <jo...@taugh.com> wrote:
>In article <1173318279.555679658.757...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Peter Flass  <peter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Yes, I loved the -10 too, although I didn't program it extensively. I was
>>sorry when it was canceled, although I suspect it would have been difficult
>>to expand the architecture to larger memory sizes.
>
>We don't have to guess.  They did expand the addressing for the DEC-20
>and it was pretty ugly.  The extra address bits were called the
>section number, with some addressing being within the current section
>and some being global.  TOPS-20 supported it but I don't recall many
>programs using it.

It wasn't that ugly, IMO, but I never really tried to use it myself.

TOPS-20 itself used it, but without looking at my references (currently in
boxes) I cannot recall the exact details.  If memory serves, most or all monitor
code was in section zero; a couple of non-zero sections were used for data
and/or buffers.

1022 (database program) would have been an obvious candidate for using sections,
and I think it might have.  (I've cross-posted this to alt.sys.pdp10.)

I think that any reasonably coded programs of the day would have fit in section
zero, with non-zero sections used for data.  Given a good design one might not
have to actually move data in order to process it -- just change the memory map
tables with the appropriate system calls.

One thing on my todo list that I never tried was to see if the PMAP bug also
applied to SMAP.  (PMAP page A to page B; PMAP page B to page A.  Any reference
to either page causes the microcode to loop forever trying to resolve the
address.  When the front-end PDP-11 fails to get any response from the PDP-10
after a certain interval, it generates a "keep alive" halt and forces a reboot.)

I can't even remember how many bits in an extended address, so I'm not sure how
well it would work given today's memory sizes.  One must remember that PDP-10
addresses point to 36-bit words, not 8-bit bytes.
Technical Details
Message-ID: <5b713976.12058298@news.dslextreme.com>
Path: mbox-mo1.pugleaf.net!g5-v6ni3751iti.0!nntp.google.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.70.MISMATCH!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!fx36.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
References: <21aaeee8-c41a-4442-a4eb-ea6a29b1e4f1@googlegroups.com> <mddh8k2vyfh.fsf@panix5.panix.com> <ft6gi3F3aanU11@mid.individual.net> <1173318279.555679658.757757.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <pkmv0r$2bhi$1@gal.iecc.com>

Show Full Headers
Complete Article Headers
X-Received: by 2002:a24:646:: with SMTP id 67-v6mr5886101itv.54.1534146949685;        Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: alt.folklore.computers@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a02:a89a:: with SMTP id l26-v6ls2725897jam.2.gmail; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a02:a319:: with SMTP id q25-v6mr7718621jai.44.1534146949081;        Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Path: mbox-mo1.pugleaf.net!g5-v6ni3751iti.0!nntp.google.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed9.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.70.MISMATCH!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!fx36.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: PDP-10 addressing, PDP 11/40 system manual
Organization: random access
Reply-To: usenet@only.tnx
Message-ID: <5b713976.12058298@news.dslextreme.com>
References: <21aaeee8-c41a-4442-a4eb-ea6a29b1e4f1@googlegroups.com> <mddh8k2vyfh.fsf@panix5.panix.com> <ft6gi3F3aanU11@mid.individual.net> <1173318279.555679658.757757.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <pkmv0r$2bhi$1@gal.iecc.com>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Lines: 38
X-Complaints-To: abu...@dslextreme.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:55:48 UTC
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:56:10 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 2980
X-Received-Body-CRC: 4194033157
Bytes: 3329
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit