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Article #625491Re: S/360 addressing, was PDP 11/40 system manual
From: John Levine
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 00:49
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 00:49
39 lines
3371 bytes
3371 bytes
In article <c1165d5b-1d41-4f6b...@googlegroups.com>, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote: >On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 3:54:51 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote: >> On Thu, 09 Aug 2018 17:36:24 -0400, Peter Flass wrote: > >> > System/360. > >> All that base register stuff... > >But surely that's unavoidable, if you want to have more than 64 K of memory? The issue was that they wanted to have a single architecture that was usable on a 16K 360/30 and a 4MB 360/70. So it needed large addresses in the architecture (should have been 32 bits but they wimped out and limited it to 24 which was clearly a mistake), but they needed small addresses in the instructions to make the instruction density high enough. Base+displacement addressing was a reasonable approach, but they made two mistakes. One is that code addressing should have been PC relative rather than base relative so the RX and RS branch instructions should have had 16 bit branch offsets. This would have allowed branches 64K in either direction (instructions are halfword aligned so don't store the low zero bit) which is a lot of code. They fixed this much later by adding relative addressing to s/390. The other was that they thought that base addressing gave them position independent code, from what they said in the architecture articles in the IBM SJ. Branch addressing with BALR to set the base register is position independent, but pointers stored in memory are not. This could have been addressed by disciplined programming (as it was in TSS/360) but instructions like "load pointer and add base register" would have given people a hint of how things were supposed to work. -- Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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X-Received: by 2002:a24:552:: with SMTP id 79-v6mr2250625itl.16.1533948580204; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:49:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: alt.folklore.computers@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a24:b342:: with SMTP id z2-v6ls560777iti.1.gmail; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a24:2fc8:: with SMTP id j191-v6mr2210255itj.27.1533948579215; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Path: mbox-mo1.pugleaf.net!k71-v6ni1527itk.0!nntp.google.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.iecc.com!.POSTED.news.iecc.com!not-for-mail From: John Levine <jo...@taugh.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: S/360 addressing, was PDP 11/40 system manual Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 00:49:38 -0000 (UTC) Organization: Taughannock Networks Message-ID: <pklbr2$1rlq$1@gal.iecc.com> References: <21aaeee8-c41a-4442-a4eb-ea6a29b1e4f1@googlegroups.com> <1028478389.555543171.735142.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <ft3rh8F3aanU6@mid.individual.net> <c1165d5b-1d41-4f6b-935a-dc1a586ff9db@googlegroups.com> Injection-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 00:49:38 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: gal.iecc.com; posting-host="news.iecc.com:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:676f:7373:6970"; logging-data="61114"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@iecc.com" Cleverness: some X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010) Originator: jo...@iecc.com (John Levine) Bytes: 2841 Lines: 38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit