Re: 1958 Crisis in education

Article View: alt.folklore.computers

Article #624944

Back to alt.folklore.computers Previous Next

#624944

From: Questor
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:52

39 lines
4787 bytes

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:42:49 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-6, Questor wrote:
>> In the 1980s, Usenet was *explicitly* designed and operated such that posts were
>> ephemeral.  Newsfeed retention times were measured in days, not years or even
>> months.  While it wasn't impossible to imagine otherwise, at the time it would
>> have been an exercise in pure fantasy to do so.
>
>Posts were ephemeral *within the Usenet network itself*. They weren't encrypted, 
>so that they could only be displayed on machines that would not transmit their 
>plaintext externally, which were kept in guarded rooms so that no one could 
>photograph the messages on computer screens.
>
>Thus, to say that it takes 20-20 hindsight to anticipate the possibility of a 
>USENET message being saved to embarrass one later is, I believe, to be 
>stretching it.

You have completely ignored my point and twisted what I said beyond recognition.

I never said that Usenet messages couldn't be saved.  Of course they could.  And
I never said anything about embarrassment -- that is an irrelevant aspect that
you added.  (If you actually knew anything about Usenet in the mid-1980s, you
would know that posting an embarrassing message was much less likely in those
days than today, in large part due to what was required to have Usenet access.)

What I said was that the possibility that somebody would save *all* Usenet
messages, from *every* newsgroup, and furthermore, make that archive available
to anybody via the Internet, would have been viewed as very unlikely in the
middle 1980s, largely due the price of disk storage.  A several hundred megabyte
disk drive for a Vax, for example, would have cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Futhermore, this was the time when the Arpanet was still transitioning into the
Internet.  Only some Universities and select businesses were connected to it.
Why would they spend that kind of money to archive Usenet posts?  The advent of
commercial ISPs, open to the public, was years away.

I stand by my original statement.  A complete Usenet archive, open to all
comers, would have been a flight of fancy at a time when Usenet messages were
*explicitly* considered ephemeral and routinely deleted within days of being
received.

Technical Details

Message-ID: <5b7138b7.11866923@news.dslextreme.com>

Path:

mbox-mo1.pugleaf.net!g5-v6ni3749iti.0!nntp.google.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.eu1.usenetexpress.com!news.uzoreto.com!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.69.MISMATCH!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!fx42.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail

References:

<b2llkdhvdgbe5ku5nvod36f8omsnb9l35t@4ax.com> <20180715075348.565fe7ba686c6eaa517c3cce@eircom.net> <f9e77c58-16e1-4339-ac4c-c45bc403c020@googlegroups.com> <j2lqkdljnuv4ferj5sa3ugqj951mikgr3u@4ax.com> <1a83685b-35cd-4ca9-a81d-a215e860bb1b@googlegroups.com> <slrnpkr5i5.1l4.mausg@dmaus.org> <20180717095750.db03d16472288e095782e917@eircom.net> <fr5trrFg3paU1@mid.individual.net> <XnsA922761147C19admin127001@85.214.115.223> <fr5vf7Fg3paU2@mid.individual.net> <fr61loFeltqU3@mid.individual.net> <fr627kFg3paU5@mid.individual.net> <fr65r4FeltqU5@mid.individual.net> <9e6ade0d-c70e-4666-aa6a-2a6ec5f155c7@googlegroups.com> <20180720.1356.1025281snz@twoplaces.co.uk> <5b537e2d.11727042@news.dslextreme.com> <frj0g7F94naU1@mid.individual.net> <5b575cf8.6664082@news.dslextreme.com> <frp8pbFmh47U1@mid.individual.net> <5b58b361.4746635@news.dslextreme.com> <frrsbtFa5cjU1@mid.individual.net> <5b59fae7.3399327@news.dslextreme.com> <602bf8e8-b91d-484d-a8bb-e4c81bd42cb6@googlegroups.com>

Show Full Headers

Complete Article Headers

X-Received: by 2002:a6b:2c8:: with SMTP id 191-v6mr5429280ioc.62.1534146723760;        Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: alt.folklore.computers@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a02:b799:: with SMTP id f25-v6ls2687489jam.6.gmail; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a02:b587:: with SMTP id m7-v6mr7884724jaj.7.1534146722997;        Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Path: mbox-mo1.pugleaf.net!g5-v6ni3749iti.0!nntp.google.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.eu1.usenetexpress.com!news.uzoreto.com!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.69.MISMATCH!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!fx42.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: usenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 1958 Crisis in education
Organization: random access
Reply-To: usenet@only.tnx
Message-ID: <5b7138b7.11866923@news.dslextreme.com>
References: <b2llkdhvdgbe5ku5nvod36f8omsnb9l35t@4ax.com> <20180715075348.565fe7ba686c6eaa517c3cce@eircom.net> <f9e77c58-16e1-4339-ac4c-c45bc403c020@googlegroups.com> <j2lqkdljnuv4ferj5sa3ugqj951mikgr3u@4ax.com> <1a83685b-35cd-4ca9-a81d-a215e860bb1b@googlegroups.com> <slrnpkr5i5.1l4.mausg@dmaus.org> <20180717095750.db03d16472288e095782e917@eircom.net> <fr5trrFg3paU1@mid.individual.net> <XnsA922761147C19admin127001@85.214.115.223> <fr5vf7Fg3paU2@mid.individual.net> <fr61loFeltqU3@mid.individual.net> <fr627kFg3paU5@mid.individual.net> <fr65r4FeltqU5@mid.individual.net> <9e6ade0d-c70e-4666-aa6a-2a6ec5f155c7@googlegroups.com> <20180720.1356.1025281snz@twoplaces.co.uk> <5b537e2d.11727042@news.dslextreme.com> <frj0g7F94naU1@mid.individual.net> <5b575cf8.6664082@news.dslextreme.com> <frp8pbFmh47U1@mid.individual.net> <5b58b361.4746635@news.dslextreme.com> <frrsbtFa5cjU1@mid.individual.net> <5b59fae7.3399327@news.dslextreme.com> <602bf8e8-b91d-484d-a8bb-e4c81bd42cb6@googlegroups.com>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Lines: 40
X-Complaints-To: abu...@dslextreme.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:52:02 UTC
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:52:24 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 3924
X-Received-Body-CRC: 1967118645
Bytes: 4235
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Reply to Parent Message